1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
|
Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <ewillbefull@gmail.com>) id 1Wj561-0001VO-9K
for Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sat, 10 May 2014 11:05:37 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
designates 74.125.82.181 as permitted sender)
client-ip=74.125.82.181; envelope-from=ewillbefull@gmail.com;
helo=mail-we0-f181.google.com;
Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com ([74.125.82.181])
by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1Wj55z-0001tg-MJ
for Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sat, 10 May 2014 11:05:37 +0000
Received: by mail-we0-f181.google.com with SMTP id w61so5027186wes.12
for <Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Sat, 10 May 2014 04:05:29 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.92.69 with SMTP id ck5mr7373915wib.15.1399719929308;
Sat, 10 May 2014 04:05:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.194.10.40 with HTTP; Sat, 10 May 2014 04:05:29 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <5279D49D.5050807@jerviss.org>
References: <5279D49D.5050807@jerviss.org>
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 05:05:29 -0600
Message-ID: <CAGRKETt1UOh6GBeT5Ti1PvRHsqTsddybLZUvbWsQeyQQZEatrg@mail.gmail.com>
From: E willbefull <ewillbefull@gmail.com>
To: kjj <bitcoin-devel@jerviss.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf306847392beaee04f909b1e4
X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(ewillbefull[at]gmail.com)
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's domain
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1Wj55z-0001tg-MJ
Cc: Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] we can all relax now
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 11:05:37 -0000
--20cf306847392beaee04f909b1e4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I've created a simulation framework called simbit to simulate the selfish
mining attack, though it is general enough to simulate any p2p network. I
even put together a rough simulation of MinCen. The goal is to be fun/easy
to rapidly prototype protocols and strategies, and visualize them. It's
written in javascript, so it can be demoed in the web browser or run on
Node.
It's still in early alpha and a lot of things are missing.
https://github.com/ebfull/simbit
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=603171.0
Feedback is appreciated!
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:33 PM, kjj <bitcoin-devel@jerviss.org> wrote:
> One of the things that really gets me going is when someone devises a
> model, tests it against itself, and then pretends that they've learned
> something about the real world.
>
> Naturally, the Selfish Mining paper is exactly this sort of nonsense.
> Their model is one with no latency, and one where the attacker has total
> visibility across the network. An iterated FSM is not a suitable
> simulation of the bitcoin system. The bitcoin network does not have
> states, and to the extent that you can pretend that we do, you can't
> simulate transitions between them with static probabilities.
>
> The authors understand this deep down inside, even though they didn't
> work out the implications. They handwave the issue by assuming a total
> sybil attack, and in true academic spirit, they don't realize that the
> condition necessary for the attack is far, far worse than the attack
> itself.
>
> Greg said he'd like to run some simulations, and I'm thinking about it
> too. Unfortunately, he is busy all week, and I'm lazy (and also busy
> for most of tomorrow).
>
> If neither of us get to it first, I'm willing to pitch in 1 BTC as a
> bounty for building a general bitcoin network simulator framework. The
> simulator should be able to account for latency between nodes, and
> ideally within a node. It needs to be able to simulate an attacker that
> owns varying fractions of the network, and make decisions based only on
> what the attacker actually knows. It needs to be able to simulate this
> "attack" and should be generic enough to be easily modified for other
> crazy schemes.
>
> (Bounty offer is serious, but expires in one year [based on the earliest
> timestamp that my mail server puts on this email], and /may/ be subject
> to change if the price on any reputable exchange breaks 1000 USD per BTC
> in that period.)
>
> Basically, the lack of a decent network simulator is what allowed this
> paper to get press. If the author had been able to see the importance
> of the stuff he was ignoring, we wouldn't be wasting so much time
> correcting him (and sadly the reporters that have no way to check his
> claims).
>
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324413.msg3495663#msg3495663
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models.
> Explore
> techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most
> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
> register
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--20cf306847392beaee04f909b1e4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>I've created a simulation framework called s=
imbit to simulate the selfish mining attack, though it is general enough to=
simulate any p2p network. I even put together a rough simulation of MinCen=
. The goal is to be fun/easy to rapidly prototype protocols and strategies,=
and visualize them. It's written in javascript, so it can be demoed in=
the web browser or run on Node.<br>
<br></div><div>It's still in early alpha and a lot of things are missin=
g.<br></div><div><br><a href=3D"https://github.com/ebfull/simbit">https://g=
ithub.com/ebfull/simbit</a><br><br><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index=
.php?topic=3D603171.0">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D603171.0</=
a><br>
<br></div>Feedback is appreciated!<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:33 PM, kjj <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-devel@jerviss.org" target=3D=
"_blank">bitcoin-devel@jerviss.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">One of the things that really gets me going =
is when someone devises a<br>
model, tests it against itself, and then pretends that they've learned<=
br>
something about the real world.<br>
<br>
Naturally, the Selfish Mining paper is exactly this sort of nonsense.<br>
Their model is one with no latency, and one where the attacker has total<br=
>
visibility across the network. =C2=A0An iterated FSM is not a suitable<br>
simulation of the bitcoin system. =C2=A0The bitcoin network does not have<b=
r>
states, and to the extent that you can pretend that we do, you can't<br=
>
simulate transitions between them with static probabilities.<br>
<br>
The authors understand this deep down inside, even though they didn't<b=
r>
work out the implications. =C2=A0They handwave the issue by assuming a tota=
l<br>
sybil attack, and in true academic spirit, they don't realize that the<=
br>
condition necessary for the attack is far, far worse than the attack itself=
.<br>
<br>
Greg said he'd like to run some simulations, and I'm thinking about=
it<br>
too. =C2=A0Unfortunately, he is busy all week, and I'm lazy (and also b=
usy<br>
for most of tomorrow).<br>
<br>
If neither of us get to it first, I'm willing to pitch in 1 BTC as a<br=
>
bounty for building a general bitcoin network simulator framework. The<br>
simulator should be able to account for latency between nodes, and<br>
ideally within a node. =C2=A0It needs to be able to simulate an attacker th=
at<br>
owns varying fractions of the network, and make decisions based only on<br>
what the attacker actually knows. =C2=A0It needs to be able to simulate thi=
s<br>
"attack" and should be generic enough to be easily modified for o=
ther<br>
crazy schemes.<br>
<br>
(Bounty offer is serious, but expires in one year [based on the earliest<br=
>
timestamp that my mail server puts on this email], and /may/ be subject<br>
to change if the price on any reputable exchange breaks 1000 USD per BTC<br=
>
in that period.)<br>
<br>
Basically, the lack of a decent network simulator is what allowed this<br>
paper to get press. =C2=A0If the author had been able to see the importance=
<br>
of the stuff he was ignoring, we wouldn't be wasting so much time<br>
correcting him (and sadly the reporters that have no way to check his<br>
claims).<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D324413.msg3495663#msg3=
495663" target=3D"_blank">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D324413.=
msg3495663#msg3495663</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers<br>
Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explor=
e<br>
techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most=
<br>
from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and regist=
er<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60136231&iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D60136231&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
--20cf306847392beaee04f909b1e4--
|
