summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/a0/1792cdfecfafe42ace16a78353311f77cdc478
blob: d2e5809c40a65254e4414fccafdf017b04b1e8f5 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
Return-Path: <adam@cypherspace.org>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60EEB8E3
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Fri,  7 Aug 2015 23:06:30 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA0891C3
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Fri,  7 Aug 2015 23:06:29 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-qg0-f42.google.com ([209.85.192.42]) by mrelay.perfora.net
	(mreueus003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M6Tdt-1Ye6ko0AmJ-00yPEt for
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Sat, 08 Aug 2015 01:06:29 +0200
Received: by qgj62 with SMTP id 62so59805900qgj.2
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Fri, 07 Aug 2015 16:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.140.93.72 with SMTP id c66mr1967198qge.32.1438988788211;
	Fri, 07 Aug 2015 16:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.96.226.68 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Aug 2015 16:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <2586092.4ZtH253X8E@coldstorage>
References: <CABsx9T16fH+56isq95m4+QWsKwP==tf75ep8ghnEcBoV4OtZJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABsx9T10y6-=c7Qg6jysnf38wRX3NA3wWozxGfE+mEYJvPeqWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABm2gDpwMQzju+Gsoe3qMi60MPr7OAiSuigy3RdA1xh-SwFzbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2586092.4ZtH253X8E@coldstorage>
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 00:06:28 +0100
Message-ID: <CALqxMTGDET0dEuw9bi=LBXF8jiuLdoPoGYaDCPpXtPvqeDW30A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org>
To: Thomas Zander <thomas@thomaszander.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:8RUyrC9P7wQ8iu9vxzT4HHJ85s7fUeA+GKqrwkw/1kGBFZTnJW8
	GQ+x1hFWI9k4Ve7otGvqw2tTwSVnRIGEDJi4bPq4MwWMADLFRAoMujU/4e+dFwUFGu/VnAn
	lF/N+4N5BN9OYESiOLy8liM2lqUSCggYa2PJBHJfzU9iuieuOksrx+wLhOvRrYHio/A4Kjp
	boc3pwaJC7jISxU5nWDuA==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:4rKkVpuEWSA=:BdzHSTUyjp1BjxkiT6u02P
	xwljI+Zi5/wqLBNyE9CUzvX76kVQytU+6Y2voABu4Vocq1oiZrwC6LmBX4Inq7ML93tob+E9h
	Uk32Qsca4Sk+1JIk/4D/hRKAox+2omISbsHdTtxP5WPoSF48iiBzkzmPDYgx5tBWa1MzRCLHk
	szY1LZosl6bcPCNabMSi4HGz5Py0g/LMXty595J0vv5ugIlOusq7uhr4x0VuLxOC4CMdDENzH
	IzWiqhaJSh31OHTn2gPtksGq6eSn+iJarPfoSN95PTC1RolYCIrR/f+DYNBsLozROnFjReW8I
	x+1gxxSkvT1UvH3+9sxhrvO6l2Zd+fXsQVjSigpgqn0a7oVrdyQM8c2m5ha0oX9mmrlQo3mHd
	yc/LfHF1FDvoVf1juf/qd6wXGPL/xLU85Ej+qVhygoN3E7ZuWOmWalD4kQ+5kV57p0D/dyfnD
	29nWUzgFbyGh81+BYYREMF6KWBy14T8GSPSTLo9MTkw16Sg6qTna1lcM8qICPPKg7aDBBaAPt
	+GBy8jGKs8fRC6hM5BWUUKT3znVB1JkT02AEZsQOFhh5JC6u1F19wpiKdKTglmOwJST2wz7sn
	qX8eu1TmNQyYbSv11IcnGM2IS+//SljA08TH1qERRnj+sY+deUpaf1QNE1cfSkrXT2BV64uOa
	uR2/5/kfc1pqnPb+RuQBD1KwGH/fsev44Yk7Thszs+HFOtO02R0oeJN0GRTCH9XmBxMLlXZGu
	JhqRtPejzlskioCD
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fees and the block-finding process
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 23:06:30 -0000

Please try to focus on constructive technical comments.

On 7 August 2015 at 23:12, Thomas Zander via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> What will the backlash be when people here that are pushing for "off-chain-
> transactions" fail to produce a properly working alternative, which
> essentially means we have to say NO to more users.

But > 99% of Bitcoin transactions are already off-chain.  There are
multiple competing companies offering consumer & retail service with
off-chain settlement.

I wasnt clear but it seemed in your previous mail that you seemed to
say you dont mind trusting other people with your money, and so
presumably you are OK using these services, and so have no problem?

> At this time and this size of bitcoin community, my personal experience (and
> I've been part of many communities) saying NO to new customers

Who said no to anything?  The systems of off-chain transfer already
exist and are by comparison to Bitcoins protocol simple and rapid to
adapt and scale.

Indications are that we can even do off-chain at scale with Bitcoin
similar trust-minimisation with lightning, and duplex payment
channels; and people are working on that right now.

I think it would be interesting and useful for someone, with an
interest in low trust, high scale transactions, to work on and propose
an interoperability standard and API for such off-chain services to be
accessed by wallets, and perhaps periodic on-chain inter-service
netting.

Adam