path: root/9b/57cfb4a4a6242361dc7273585438ef4829604a

Return-Path: <dscotese@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09498256;
	Mon, 10 Oct 2016 15:34:20 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-vk0-f46.google.com (mail-vk0-f46.google.com
	[209.85.213.46])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1643311D;
	Mon, 10 Oct 2016 15:34:18 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-vk0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 192so89501085vkl.2;
	Mon, 10 Oct 2016 08:34:18 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
	h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id
	:subject:to:cc;
	bh=a9ooqVqBb+rHO5d0Pw6JKQ25GeLgxKz2eWb6oqiCv+E=;
	b=Qk9he/IlzC8gqwPTQRQrS/Kj90NKGC/uZ1K7hsj2uKPYa0Yb1f2oTzYjNqaH41XqCM
	SmHPajT4ITcRQXe5tAGbmrHWjT7YgRgUMY3XUakVV/KA5ex0NxVL59VqGQoeV+PBMLHS
	1kPMFCe52f9+Xb4Rc2OJbjYl04AmJyfK5kp3GeV6bCRsUBxqZTaXDZ+eQdj4JYpfOtI5
	mHWmaAdAs3tkicFasDCYohCvrCD9kq1wM6AeDQLnfKsWbNibOxnN9U5tyPCmKm1bRt9d
	ZwA8Bq9NyrhCSG7MhnbRALuCvwWdAkQKKygyqNTFBIsCglCiM+okh65593qUzJvm+rnB
	gwLg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
	h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from
	:date:message-id:subject:to:cc;
	bh=a9ooqVqBb+rHO5d0Pw6JKQ25GeLgxKz2eWb6oqiCv+E=;
	b=jlh7OA4oiUnI3KyYmTtqX/uQCXd7cEbB0HWNnWosZkN3BFXHBNRwvka5sUeOu7uO91
	x0GRwiIrIrineHw2vgdz2v5cMypBks7M+volVQBWZvjicDGhJufjwlPlMl5CEGuDc0i6
	85uWwKovEhecFHJolYGZ/qJZk5D/6nynrq6qGp8NOAAmoIkrqMOV19kOGykDMpLpDqY9
	uJdPL0Y/zkpsmS9koT9V8AL0avLqX3N8cWdJxJoyMsOoHcfy7iiqAUSLuemEawU5b/7g
	V/4yxsEKe1uyakVF98d7hzUAicxQ8pZ0PRDOG6+1SBdkSKKBV4+1BBuKowMfgwsGuP40
	GDwQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RmqJ9IReatPwojAZP8vVAhKm4yyS7Al/B7MBW6LIoYdlBtJUh4QgFTYiMa5k08KU7+7A0E0AxJ8uIYzGg==
X-Received: by 10.31.178.198 with SMTP id b189mr9524895vkf.70.1476113657796;
	Mon, 10 Oct 2016 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: dscotese@gmail.com
Received: by 10.176.69.226 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Oct 2016 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20161010073806.GA2172@banane.informatik.uni-ulm.de>
References: <CAD5xwhgayR9CgfcypCwGEDyubE4z-mXEjxDmGh09GYO8nhm3Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<20161010073806.GA2172@banane.informatik.uni-ulm.de>
From: Dave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2016 08:34:17 -0700
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8j9poTClm0mObtJUjzGWDgbM8PU
Message-ID: <CAGLBAhd4dzUncmdU006rR1+HLon7O-AM30CZZs3qbNMDpgJgJA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Henning Kopp <henning.kopp@uni-ulm.de>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1143f082389ecb053e847e9c
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Bitcoin Discuss <bitcoin-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] 1 Year bitcoin-dev Moderation Review
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2016 15:34:20 -0000

--001a1143f082389ecb053e847e9c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I sent my previous email ONLY to bitcoin-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org
and it waited in the moderation queue.  I don't know when moderation was
added to this list, but it seems to me that it's a misstep.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Henning Kopp via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I totally agree with the assessment of the situation. Previously I
> learned a lot about bitcoin on this list. There were a lot of great
> ideas regarding the protocol and the surrounding ecosystem. Now there
> is mainly talk about code and BIPs, which is the main purpose of a
> developer list.
> I do not feel that we should clog bitcoin-dev again with
> non-development talk but rather find a way to get bitcoin-discuss
> going. My impression is that bitcoin-discuss has not reached a
> critical mass of contributors. The question is how we can change that.
>
> All the best
> Henning
>
> On Sun, Oct 09, 2016 at 12:26:07PM +0200, Jeremy via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Hi bitcoin-dev,
> >
> > I'm well aware that discussion of moderation on bitcoin-dev is
> > discouraged*. However, I think that we should, as a year of moderation
> > approaches, discuss openly as a community what the impact of such policy
> > has been. Making such a post now is timely given that people will have
> the
> > opportunity to discuss in-person as well as online as Scaling Bitcoin is
> > currently underway. On the suggestion of others, I've also CC'd
> > bitcoin-discuss on this message.
> >
> > Below, I'll share some of my own personal thoughts as a starter, but
> would
> > love to hear others feelings as well.
> >
> > For me, the bitcoin-dev mailing list was a place where I started
> > frequenting to learn a lot about bitcoin and the development process and
> > interact with the community. Since moderation has begun, it seems that
> the
> > messages/day has dropped drastically. This may be a nice outcome overall
> > for our sanity, but I think that it has on the whole made the community
> > less accessible. I've heard from people (a > 1 number, myself included)
> > that they now self-censor because they think they will put a lot of work
> > into their email only for it to get moderated away as trolling/spam.
> Thus,
> > while we may not observe a high rate of moderated posts, it does mean the
> > "chilling effect" of moderation still manifests -- I think that people
> not
> > writing emails because they think it may be moderated reduces the rate of
> > people writing emails which is a generally valuable thing as it offers
> > people a vehicle through which they try to think through and communicate
> > their ideas in detail.
> >
> > Overall, I think that at the time that moderation was added to the list,
> it
> > was probably the right thing to do. We're in a different place as a
> > community now, so I feel we should attempt to open up this valuable
> > communication channel once again. My sentiment is that we enacted
> > moderation to protect a resource that we all felt was valuable, but in
> the
> > process, the value of the list was damaged, but not irreparably so.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> > * From the email introducing the bitcoin-dev moderation policy,
> "Generally
> > discouraged: shower thoughts, wild speculation, jokes, +1s, non-technical
> > bitcoin issues, rehashing settled topics without new data, moderation
> >  concerns."
> >
> >
> > --
> > @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
> > <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
> --
> Henning Kopp
> Institute of Distributed Systems
> Ulm University, Germany
>
> Office: O27 - 3402
> Phone: +49 731 50-24138
> Web: http://www.uni-ulm.de/in/vs/~kopp
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>



-- 
I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a
techie?
I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com> and Meme Racing
<http://www.memeracing.net> (in alpha).
I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com> which
now accepts Bitcoin.
I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>.
"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi
Nakamoto

--001a1143f082389ecb053e847e9c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I sent my previous email ONLY to <span class=3D"gmail-gI">=
<span><a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-=
discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a> and it waited in the moderation queue=
.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t know when moderation was added to this list, but it see=
ms to me that it&#39;s a misstep.<br></span></span></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:38 AM, H=
enning Kopp via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin=
-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfo=
undation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all=
,<br>
<br>
I totally agree with the assessment of the situation. Previously I<br>
learned a lot about bitcoin on this list. There were a lot of great<br>
ideas regarding the protocol and the surrounding ecosystem. Now there<br>
is mainly talk about code and BIPs, which is the main purpose of a<br>
developer list.<br>
I do not feel that we should clog bitcoin-dev again with<br>
non-development talk but rather find a way to get bitcoin-discuss<br>
going. My impression is that bitcoin-discuss has not reached a<br>
critical mass of contributors. The question is how we can change that.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Henning<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Sun, Oct 09, 2016 at 12:26:07PM +0200, Jeremy via bitcoin-dev wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi bitcoin-dev,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;m well aware that discussion of moderation on bitcoin-dev is<br>
&gt; discouraged*. However, I think that we should, as a year of moderation=
<br>
&gt; approaches, discuss openly as a community what the impact of such poli=
cy<br>
&gt; has been. Making such a post now is timely given that people will have=
 the<br>
&gt; opportunity to discuss in-person as well as online as Scaling Bitcoin =
is<br>
&gt; currently underway. On the suggestion of others, I&#39;ve also CC&#39;=
d<br>
&gt; bitcoin-discuss on this message.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Below, I&#39;ll share some of my own personal thoughts as a starter, b=
ut would<br>
&gt; love to hear others feelings as well.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; For me, the bitcoin-dev mailing list was a place where I started<br>
&gt; frequenting to learn a lot about bitcoin and the development process a=
nd<br>
&gt; interact with the community. Since moderation has begun, it seems that=
 the<br>
&gt; messages/day has dropped drastically. This may be a nice outcome overa=
ll<br>
&gt; for our sanity, but I think that it has on the whole made the communit=
y<br>
&gt; less accessible. I&#39;ve heard from people (a &gt; 1 number, myself i=
ncluded)<br>
&gt; that they now self-censor because they think they will put a lot of wo=
rk<br>
&gt; into their email only for it to get moderated away as trolling/spam. T=
hus,<br>
&gt; while we may not observe a high rate of moderated posts, it does mean =
the<br>
&gt; &quot;chilling effect&quot; of moderation still manifests -- I think t=
hat people not<br>
&gt; writing emails because they think it may be moderated reduces the rate=
 of<br>
&gt; people writing emails which is a generally valuable thing as it offers=
<br>
&gt; people a vehicle through which they try to think through and communica=
te<br>
&gt; their ideas in detail.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Overall, I think that at the time that moderation was added to the lis=
t, it<br>
&gt; was probably the right thing to do. We&#39;re in a different place as =
a<br>
&gt; community now, so I feel we should attempt to open up this valuable<br=
>
&gt; communication channel once again. My sentiment is that we enacted<br>
&gt; moderation to protect a resource that we all felt was valuable, but in=
 the<br>
&gt; process, the value of the list was damaged, but not irreparably so.<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Jeremy<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * From the email introducing the bitcoin-dev moderation policy, &quot;=
Generally<br>
&gt; discouraged: shower thoughts, wild speculation, jokes, +1s, non-techni=
cal<br>
&gt; bitcoin issues, rehashing settled topics without new data, moderation<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 concerns.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
</div></div>&gt; @JeremyRubin &lt;<a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubi=
n" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://twitter.com/<wbr>JeremyRubi=
n</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://twitter.com/<wbr>JeremyRubin</a>&gt;<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@l=
ists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-=
dev" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wb=
r>org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
</span>Henning Kopp<br>
Institute of Distributed Systems<br>
Ulm University, Germany<br>
<br>
Office: O27 - 3402<br>
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20731%2050-24138" value=3D"+497315024138">+49 7=
31 50-24138</a><br>
Web: <a href=3D"http://www.uni-ulm.de/in/vs/~kopp" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.uni-ulm.de/in/vs/~<wbr>kopp</a><br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">______________________________<wbr>=
_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">I =
like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a tec=
hie?=C2=A0 <br>I own <a href=3D"http://www.litmocracy.com" target=3D"_blank=
">Litmocracy</a> and <a href=3D"http://www.memeracing.net" target=3D"_blank=
">Meme Racing</a> (in alpha). <br>I&#39;m the webmaster for <a href=3D"http=
://www.voluntaryist.com" target=3D"_blank">The Voluntaryist</a> which now a=
ccepts Bitcoin.<br>I also code for <a href=3D"http://dollarvigilante.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">The Dollar Vigilante</a>.<br>&quot;He ought to find it mo=
re profitable to play by the rules&quot; - Satoshi Nakamoto</div></div>
</div>

--001a1143f082389ecb053e847e9c--