summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/9a/0cc03c90ef4dd57b333a2d7332460564e68a10
blob: d97a320768f3d784e128d5a40154268f7d8f34d9 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
Return-Path: <tomh@thinlink.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98AFE407
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:53:40 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-pd0-f180.google.com (mail-pd0-f180.google.com
	[209.85.192.180])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 487CC16E
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:53:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by pdjr16 with SMTP id r16so30743756pdj.3
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
	h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date
	:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type
	:content-transfer-encoding;
	bh=AQ8Ho2iKkIiY4wgBF2pEd6jCKk5a8oxQ9yNfzSTv7OM=;
	b=lyd0J+na7adkaP72zZAvou6kZbZwqfBo0gS7oyqOthVJOMCgj1+12+a+wpLO0hKadN
	797OziS3Zfu2lLBhOZa8vktZlBJ/PwqdD0qLgvLlwlXERSqYrhVCnNK4uU7gMOvn/XBM
	JcEenC3aRBt7hqAmxgw2eeHwFQd65VC5N1pAzs654b2egWBINX8WlBoxbWwHD0edWxlp
	jg/LctqtNLS5xBCNy6h7aPwHL9iZed/QDh4rzUznbj1ITgRwQIcqbAb5CMd0mzeV1TwW
	clAc1DfAA9PGx4vZo5KiOn9NQa/XgsrFEsZD1MgWtWuBFqyACjMmyE1tpyIeXl87EUhI
	Q2xA==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlQ4z7VVMlSPYYto73+A2NCeiLBAvzqCco5mRnmV4LSJ/BCFS5nrrxhza3up81zD2TkWHW/
X-Received: by 10.70.64.162 with SMTP id p2mr111785885pds.54.1438289619968;
	Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.89] (99-8-65-117.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net.
	[99.8.65.117]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
	cj7sm3763043pdb.33.2015.07.30.13.53.37
	(version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
	Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Tim=c3=b3n?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
References: <CADZB0_ZgDMhVgCUh2PTAPDL7k_W8QGt_HLYdkwv_qQ5xEMn8HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<543015348.4948849.1438178962054.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<COL131-DS3F7339BCCA36BEFD1755ACD8C0@phx.gbl>
	<55B959A2.9020402@sky-ip.org>
	<CAF_2MyVAXg9788gatEQ-t4=8rJxXdkf9DA45uF5_gksDUM6b=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALqxMTHEknuwPW-uG3W9Fv1sQC54ud3zk4aLQaFGTTjAt7ghfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF_2MyXhhZyHSekOR0uTKndt8onEHqTJGnZwWFXoHw6xngidPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<55BA2329.1080700@thinlink.com>
	<CABm2gDoh69a0335uLhwVndwwLiYtZEVdCvNsrCtHiRAVrSqkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com>
X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110
Message-ID: <55BA8ED0.4080600@thinlink.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:36 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101
	Thunderbird/38.1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CABm2gDoh69a0335uLhwVndwwLiYtZEVdCvNsrCtHiRAVrSqkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev]
 =?utf-8?q?R=C4=83spuns=3A_Personal_opinion_on_the_f?=
 =?utf-8?q?ee_market_from_a_worried_local_trader?=
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:53:40 -0000

On 7/30/2015 11:14 AM, Jorge Timón wrote:
> The blocksize limit (your "production quota") is necessary for
> decentralization, not for having a functioning fee market.

> If we can agree that hitting the limit will JUST cause higher fees and
> not bitcoin to fail, puppies to die or the sky to turn purple I think
> that's a great step forward in this debate.

It's interesting how people see things differently.  I think your first
statement above represents a great step forward in the debate.  Unlike
Adam Back, you state that a block size limit is not necessary to create
a functioning fee market.

As to your second statement, unfortunately for immediate harmonious
relations, I was merely separating out the elevated fee market concern,
not at all saying it is the only or even the biggest concern with
limited capacity.  Alan Reiner, Ryan X. Charles and others have
eloquently explained how restrictive a 1MB limit is, even with "layer 2".

What's missing from the decentralization dialog is a quantitative
measure of decentralization.

Why not slam users with higher fees now, if we accept that they may be
necessary someday? For the same reasons you don't ask a child, age 5, to
work in a factory.