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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The Future of Bitcoin Testnet
From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
In-Reply-To: <CADL_X_eZ3uDU7PPh11rn2NSGwvRMjjZ3Auu6eVVQoJU78+aRxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org>, bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 13:21:07 -0400
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References: <CADL_X_eZ3uDU7PPh11rn2NSGwvRMjjZ3Auu6eVVQoJU78+aRxQ@mail.gmail.com>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
On Mar 31, 2024, at 12:24, Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com> wrot=
e:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 10:33=E2=80=AFAM Luke Dashjr <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:luke@dashjr.org">luke@dashjr.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
=20
=20
=20
<div>
<p>Is the difficulty reset bug actually a bug, or a feature?</p>
<p></p></div></blockquote><div>I haven't thought of or heard of any goo=
d reason why it's helpful to have a dozen blocks per second flood the netwo=
rk for several days every time the edge case gets hit. </div></div></d=
iv></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Apart from the genesis block and fork activa=
tion points (data), easy blocks is the only line of code (logic) that disti=
nguishes testnet3 from bitcoin.</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color=
: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"=
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I have always assumed it=
=E2=80=99s a feature intended to keep it very easy to produce blocks with t=
he side effect of limiting monetary utility and preserving most of the adju=
stment logic.</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">If it=E2=80=99s eliminated there presumably =
must be some other change to produce those intended results. However it wou=
ld be important to consider not only all of the dependencies that may be bu=
ilt up upon it, but also that the more it deviates from bitcoin the less us=
eful it becomes for testing bitcoin.</span></div><br><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>If it's a bug, couldn't we =
just fix it and let the blockchain
reorg on its own?</p></div></blockquote><div>I believe so. Upon close=
r inspection I think it's actually a soft forkable fix if all we do is rest=
rict the special testnet minimum difficulty rule so that it can't be trigge=
red on the block right before a difficulty retarget. </div><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<p>Signet is definitely not a replacement for testnet.</p>
<p>Luke</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 3/31/24 09:19, Jameson Lopp wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd like to open a discussion about testnet3 to put out
some feelers on potential changes to it. First, a few facts:</div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Testnet3 has been running for 13 years. It's on block
2.5 million something and the block reward is down to ~0.014
TBTC, so mining is not doing a great job at distributing
testnet coins any more.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. The reason the block height is insanely high is due to a
rather amusing edge case bug that causes the difficulty to
regularly get reset to 1, which causes a bit of havoc. If you
want a deep dive into the quirk: <a href=3D"https://blog.lop=
p.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/" target=3D"_blank">https://blog=
.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. Testnet3 is being actively used for scammy airdrops;
those of us who tend to be generous with our testnet coins are
getting hounded by non-developers chasing cheap gains.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one
could argue that the fundamental principle of testnet coins
having no value has been broken.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This leads me to ponder the following questions, for which
I'm soliciting feedback.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Should we plan for a reset of testnet? If so, given how
long it has been since the last reset and how many production
systems will need to be updated, would a reset need to be done
with a great deal of notice?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. Is there interest in fixing the difficulty reset bug? It
should be a one liner fix, and I'd argue it could be done
sooner rather than later, and orthogonal to the network reset
question. Would such a change, which would technically be a
hard fork (but also arguably a self resolving fork due to the
difficulty dynamics) necessitate a BIP or could we just YOLO
it?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. Is all of the above a waste of time and we should
instead deprecate testnet in favor of signet?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Jameson</div>
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