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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:30:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CALhpmH2yH1csM8=sodLN5bdSm-hhoWsNVxHPHHsGRYUqFEzHVQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Oliver Petruzel <opetruzel@gmail.com>
To: Adam Ritter <aritter@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Your Gmaxwell exchange
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>>>I would be OK with $100 transaction fee

Unless you're relying upon some hypothetical hyper-inflation of the USD,
how does one accept or justify such fees given the title (and intentions)
of Satoshi's own white paper and corresponding software?

I believe the key words "cash system" must be kept in mind throughout all
of these discussions and developments, or else we risk turning Bitcoin into
something other than cash.

Bitcoin will no longer be a P2P cash system if the fees make transactions
prohibitively expensive for all but the wealthiest of individuals and
corporations.

I understand that a careful balance must be struck between (measurable?)
decentralization and Bitcoin's use as an actual cash system; however, those
who are willing to annihilate the latter to maintain ONLY the former must
at least be honest with everyone that they really don't care if Bitcoin
becomes something entirely different than Satoshi's original invention and
intention.

Call it a necessary transformation or reinvention, and by a new name, if
you will; because, with exorbitant fees, it may no longer be accurate or
appropriate to call it Bitcoin: A Peer-to-peer Electronic CASH System.

Respectfully,
Oliver
On Aug 30, 2015 2:38 AM, "Adam Ritter via bitcoin-dev" <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> I don't really see any problem with the paper:
> All it states is that having the assumption that miners don't
> centralize, transaction fees don't go to zero even without the
> blocksize limit. I think we can accept this as a nice academic
> research, and I believe that it's true.
> Still, it doesn't have anything that is practical for me as an user of
> the Bitcoin network (I use it for storing long-term purchase value, as
> most of the people who I know): it doesn't help me if I still need to
> pay transaction fees after the blocksize limit is gone. My (and other
> users') main concern is about centralization, which has nothing to do
> with transaction fees. I would be OK with $100 transaction fee as
> well, as long as the network is fair and secure (which comes from
> decentralization).
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt;&gt;&gt;I would be OK with $100 transaction fee </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Unless you&#39;re relying upon some hypothetical hyper-infla=
tion of the USD, how does one accept or justify such fees given the title (=
and intentions) of Satoshi&#39;s own white paper and corresponding software=
?</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I believe the key words &quot;cash system&quot; must be kept=
 in mind throughout all of these discussions and developments, or else we r=
isk turning Bitcoin into something other than cash.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Bitcoin will no longer be a P2P cash system if the fees make=
 transactions prohibitively expensive for all but the wealthiest of individ=
uals and corporations.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I understand that a careful balance must be struck between (=
measurable?) decentralization and Bitcoin&#39;s use as an actual cash syste=
m; however, those who are willing to annihilate the latter to maintain ONLY=
 the former must at least be honest with everyone that they really don&#39;=
t care if Bitcoin becomes something entirely different than Satoshi&#39;s o=
riginal invention and intention.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Call it a necessary transformation or reinvention, and by a =
new name, if you will; because, with exorbitant fees, it may no longer be a=
ccurate or appropriate to call it Bitcoin: A Peer-to-peer Electronic CASH S=
ystem.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Respectfully,<br>
Oliver</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Aug 30, 2015 2:38 AM, &quot;Adam Ritter via b=
itcoin-dev&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.or=
g">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribut=
ion"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I don&#39;t really see any problem with=
 the paper:<br>
All it states is that having the assumption that miners don&#39;t<br>
centralize, transaction fees don&#39;t go to zero even without the<br>
blocksize limit. I think we can accept this as a nice academic<br>
research, and I believe that it&#39;s true.<br>
Still, it doesn&#39;t have anything that is practical for me as an user of<=
br>
the Bitcoin network (I use it for storing long-term purchase value, as<br>
most of the people who I know): it doesn&#39;t help me if I still need to<b=
r>
pay transaction fees after the blocksize limit is gone. My (and other<br>
users&#39;) main concern is about centralization, which has nothing to do<b=
r>
with transaction fees. I would be OK with $100 transaction fee as<br>
well, as long as the network is fair and secure (which comes from<br>
decentralization).<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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