1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
|
Return-Path: <bram@chia.net>
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596FFC000B
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:52:23 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E7141723
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:52:23 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new);
dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=chia.net
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id rfaDj49eWL5F
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:52:22 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com
[IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133])
by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63FB141722
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:52:22 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id bu29so2260615lfb.0
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 15 Mar 2022 23:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=chia.net; s=google;
h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to
:cc; bh=VJsTdSxIWUWUVqhWSLOgaJsQaRRkYRYaWb1X/xiXRPY=;
b=aH6hzHm7hiqiYCvOSVgKVguPb6MBGe+wKCYJ+lg6hVVj4ifrARC4FPvJb9E3374SE2
QU8tgp1OHTlbXs7dYA97kUNwubaZasMewEN9sO9FvGCYtNaCj3vvNXm4UWKmUaSZ9azm
dw0BbPT2FoZ0sUDAlX/M1b6/NdgA8PamE+JOcNjIMr8OpybOsYiXbIekwGoxqXaezJC4
u2EgQusJRuEhrkJD6k9Zv9mwDKs0R5pOuPmpwb47pZ9Jqx0UmJPteKwpMwn7VyhxS5wC
X/F8OyMlerx9zP8dyh8yZAlW77WvYa1k/7QbOEnNbLrzzjJ1Cf2Ptli1q7Hute7Eu+JX
O2EA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20210112;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date
:message-id:subject:to:cc;
bh=VJsTdSxIWUWUVqhWSLOgaJsQaRRkYRYaWb1X/xiXRPY=;
b=a8EM2Ro+AVnxDsQMkCTq1kwVcFNQVOxwYJSxH06SjjMya2s6AqA6SuM6HVK0itnmeR
1tSxyzAiTHjhJHZpOtbE4jDUtE7n3cF738wwFRGDaVh7800My1x7quvieAUX3YePRL+R
5l355ex2hZb+lsxQFl8joPXSw64hbGB2QqkvsMII+w7nDw7YFNM+29PTp2auagaf8cSD
JWmHvgw5BZc82S3+TDAbbWRv1aw2c1YhgcIdLKgWIUtVefVk3htlaH0LBH0M1WCB+R0X
eYJU+6hjJxbT7753sZqyHfF5d3cHqq1AJDBQnWxCmGASUND0OZ6fwzRRnGgxyLXEGS2X
QNmQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531JVz+BOxaVSHFyLFFsw84tu7/SUuWXbXTAOHKuVMmBaOkXaS6b
CIJZnl+zAT8YhbgKc4FNlcmAsvaTVcT007jMNGlPYw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFMbzMFsp6Hy736baPdLS2dlxi1yzI/+GPEdPxNmNIdyp/w7LrbgccVVWgMwQoHg33dResmr+AUMGenaAgcU0=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1585:b0:445:908b:ad71 with SMTP id
bp5-20020a056512158500b00445908bad71mr18220822lfb.200.1647413540272; Tue, 15
Mar 2022 23:52:20 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <lMd2d3ntj6T-VfDDZ0SHn7cUdWWeFFWO3sHolPwMTdRyGUMRY8JwtICT0vbNy9PPg-u_inUplQ-OvB-wKvXNkEUB17pXBhA7ZDwu9vxiRx0=@protonmail.com>
<NYPPZ7B4S9BQluVvyYLm7iBlBqmni5jOUYTqLtyZjCcSblwHhpXdbL5DQ4tmPVrI7eaIfdCB3d_MzQpbdD0Zdo-AvmpUbqs0JSpdB_R8nPE=@protonmail.com>
<20220311044645.GB7597@erisian.com.au>
In-Reply-To: <20220311044645.GB7597@erisian.com.au>
From: Bram Cohen <bram@chia.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 23:52:09 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHUJnBCJbP++2MmsmW7XV8csHnDKa1+205QqrWs3eL7dVYv44w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dddca205da505a0b"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:04:24 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin scripting and lisp
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:52:23 -0000
--000000000000dddca205da505a0b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:46 PM Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au> wrote:
> Note that PTLCs aren't really Chia-friendly, both because chia doesn't
> have secp256k1 operations in the first place, but also because you can't
> do a scriptless-script because the information you need to extract
> is lost when signatures are non-interactively aggregated via BLS --
> so that adds an expensive extra ECC operation rather than reusing an
> op you're already paying for (scriptless script PTLCs) or just adding
> a cheap hash operation (HTLCs).
>
The CLVM currently supports BLS12-381 group 1 point operations which it
uses to support taproot which I think is enough to support PTLCs but
obviously isn't compatible with secp. In the future there will likely be a
soft fork to include a complete set of BLS12-381 operations mostly to
support ZK implementation.
--000000000000dddca205da505a0b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:46 PM Anthony T=
owns <<a href=3D"mailto:aj@erisian.com.au">aj@erisian.com.au</a>> wro=
te:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex">Note that PTLCs aren't really Chia-friendly, both becaus=
e chia doesn't<br>
have secp256k1 operations in the first place, but also because you can'=
t<br>
do a scriptless-script because the information you need to extract<br>
is lost when signatures are non-interactively aggregated via BLS --<br>
so that adds an expensive extra ECC operation rather than reusing an<br>
op you're already paying for (scriptless script PTLCs) or just adding<b=
r>
a cheap hash operation (HTLCs).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The CLV=
M currently=C2=A0supports BLS12-381 group 1 point operations which it uses =
to support taproot which I think is enough to support PTLCs but obviously i=
sn't compatible with secp. In the future there will likely be a soft fo=
rk to include a complete set of BLS12-381 operations mostly to support ZK i=
mplementation.</div><div><br></div></div></div>
--000000000000dddca205da505a0b--
|
