1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
|
Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net>) id 1Z3zXK-0001bw-Lx
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sun, 14 Jun 2015 04:28:46 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of riseup.net
designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender)
client-ip=198.252.153.129;
envelope-from=odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net;
helo=mx1.riseup.net;
Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129])
by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
(Exim 4.76) id 1Z3zXI-0006uG-3n
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sun, 14 Jun 2015 04:28:46 +0000
Received: from berryeater.riseup.net (berryeater-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.120])
(using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
(Client CN "*.riseup.net",
Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK))
by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4026E41D06
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Sun, 14 Jun 2015 04:28:38 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
(Authenticated sender: odinn.cyberguerrilla)
with ESMTPSA id ED842400F6
Message-ID: <557D02F4.7090001@riseup.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 21:28:36 -0700
From: odinn <odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
References: <COL402-EAS423BB81E15B25CD20B11B10CDBA0@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <COL402-EAS423BB81E15B25CD20B11B10CDBA0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mx1
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
-0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,
no trust [198.252.153.129 listed in list.dnswl.org]
-0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record
-0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay
domain
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid
0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay
lines
-0.1 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address
X-Headers-End: 1Z3zXI-0006uG-3n
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] User vote in blocksize through fees
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 04:28:46 -0000
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
A decentralized, distributed application should offer its users
decentralized, distributed method of weighing in on the direction of
how it evolves as well as having an open development model. The
reference to Facebook and Myspace is completely inapplicable here
because the tyranny of such spaces isn't what we have with bitcoin
(fortunately), nor would we want to try to replicate it, ever, in any
way, shape, or form.
Yes, it does bother (some) people to see the consensus based system
because of the difficulties that can be associated with implementing
it. But that's the way it is. If you don't like consensus based
systems (or decentralized, distributed systems) this is probably the
wrong space for you.
On 06/13/2015 04:57 PM, Raystonn wrote:
> Adding back the list. Did not intend to remove it. Apologies.
>=20
> On 13 Jun 2015 4:52 pm, Raystonn <raystonn@hotmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Based on my observations, what the majority of Bitcoin users want=20
> is a system that can carry more transactions per second than any=20
> existing payment system while retaining most of the security=20
> offered today. The technicalities on how this is achieved are not=20
> as important as the end result. If the only user input is to=20
> technicalities, they will use that to voice their opinions.
>=20
> On 13 Jun 2015 4:25 pm, Danny Thorpe <danny.thorpe@gmail.com>=20
> wrote:
>=20
> I don't recall Facebook or MySpace asking end users to alter the=20
> parameters of their respective back-end network infrastructure.
>=20
> How are Bitcoin end users qualified to make an informed decision=20
> regarding block size limits? And why should they care?
>=20
> Sure, I want Bitcoin to grow its user base. But to do that,
> Bitcoin has to be accessible to the nontechnical population.
> Asking nontechnical people to make technical decisions leads
> directly to stress and confusion, which most folks find
> off-putting.
>=20
> And please don't call me Shirley. ;>
>=20
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Raystonn <raystonn@hotmail.com=20
> <mailto:raystonn@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Surely you would prefer to actually have users? Bitcoin does not=20
> exist in a vacuum. Network effect alone is not enough to ensure=20
> success in the face of competition from alternatives with a much=20
> better user experience. See Facebook vs MySpace, IE vs Netscape,=20
> etc.
>=20
> On 13 Jun 2015 3:20 pm, Danny Thorpe <danny.thorpe@gmail.com=20
> <mailto:danny.thorpe@gmail.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Please forgive my ignorance, but why should Bitcoin users have a=20
> say in block size limits? It's the miners and Bitcoin node=20
> operators that bear the burden of managing large blocks, no?
>=20
> Users voting on network parameters sounds like neighbors voting on=20
> how deep my swimming pool should be.
>=20
> Thanks, -Danny
>=20
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org=20
> <mailto:pete@petertodd.org>> wrote:
>=20
> Jeff Garzik recently proposed that the upper blocksize limit be=20
> removed entirely, with a "soft" limit being enforced via miner=20
> vote, recorded by hashing power.
>=20
> This mechanism within the protocol for users to have any influence=20
> over the miner vote. We can add that back by providing a way for=20
> transactions themselves to set a flag determining whether or not=20
> they can be included in a block casting a specific vote.
>=20
> We can simplify Garzik's vote to say that one of the nVersion bits
> either votes for the blocksize to be increased, or decreased, by=20
> some fixed ratio (e.g 2x or 1/2x) the next interval. Then we can=20
> use a nVersion bit in transactions themselves, also voting for an=20
> increase or decrease. Transactions may only be included in blocks=20
> with an indentical vote, thus providing miners with a monetary=20
> incentive via fees to vote according to user wishes.
>=20
> Of course, to cast a "don't care" vote we can either define an=20
> additional bit, or sign the transaction with both versions.
> Equally we can even have different versions with different fees,
> broadcast via a mechanism such as replace-by-fee.
>=20
>=20
> See also John Dillon's proposal for proof-of-stake blocksize=20
> voting:
>=20
> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
/msg02323.html
>
>
>=20
- -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org <http://petertodd.org>
> 0000000000000000127ab1d576dc851f374424f1269c4700ccaba2c42d97e778
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------
>
>
>=20
_______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list=20
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net=20
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>=20
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------
>
>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net=20
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>=20
- --=20
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVfQL0AAoJEGxwq/inSG8CRqMH/0l9tHGA8figVGnIBoMgdpVi
uwMGTQTjLUf12/NFS27vT+OLMWqZRvVXvlxDF25N7la+QImhh67LqmQy8fkwGg5T
kJ6MkkFLgy05aqE/X3ywJUifOKmS3Y/RDDUJhrFjjHrsMGoF4ATtVwTpUBLik+kX
G3XRNlInmyB55UEcpyfBg9kfLz8xiy6sBPeaeGnFLCNWTs5TgJ6DTFqhBAAmE8Hw
k0tN6mW3wYS610FFkS2E3+W8O8KGs4oqAYLX/ZQOhX9oKjBvWWI4ppRpSDyBNcxd
A6VAKyU8HCuDHAEwba6gdlUa+yf4qxuZV1KCNENbvtN1CTsJ6oh0OxnEO6dtogo=3D
=3DKZmG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|