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To: Claus Ehrenberg <aubergemediale@gmail.com>, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
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From: Aymeric Vitte <aymeric@peersm.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE
 OP_IF OP_PUSH
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Hi Claus,

Thanks but I am not sure to understand the solution, how the transaction
will look like and will it be standard ?

Regards

Aymeric


Le 16/02/2023 à 20:59, Claus Ehrenberg a écrit :
> I propose to require all data to be in the op_return output PLUS add a
> required op_return_hash field, which is checked by consensus. So that
> node can re-validate the chain without having to store/download/look
> at the contents of op_return data. The benefit of that little
> redundancy is that "content-sensitive" communities can ignore the date
> they don't like.
>
> Cheers
> Claus
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 7:30 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
>     It's super unclear how long it could take for such a change to be
>     adopted
>
>     Then the answer is simple, see:
>     https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation
>
>     Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing bitcoin back
>     10 years ago
>
>     But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a 1tx storage
>     solution for the future, then let's bring back bitcoin into the
>     past and destroy coins
>
>     Le 12/02/2023 à 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a écrit :
>>
>>     https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403
>>
>>     "What is the process to have someone do the PR for this? Or I do
>>     it and most likely it will be a very shxtty one since I am not a
>>     C/C++ expert, then wasting the time of everybody
>>
>>     It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a dart in the
>>     past but changed my mind, it's adapted to the current evolutions,
>>     not flooding bitcoin with 2 txs while only 1 is needed
>>
>>     If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in
>>     addresses, and super bad at the end because burning bitcoins,
>>     while still not expensive if you don't need to store big things"
>>
>>
>>     Le 05/02/2023 à 19:12, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Sat., Feb. 4, 2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, <pete@petertodd.org
>>>     <mailto:pete@petertodd.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00, Russell O'Connor
>>>         via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>         <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>>>         >Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the
>>>         script pubkey,
>>>         >there is a crossover point in data size where it will
>>>         simply be cheaper to
>>>         >use witness data.  Where that crossover point is depends on
>>>         the finer
>>>         >details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could
>>>         make some
>>>         >reasonable assumptions.  Such a calculation could form the
>>>         basis of a
>>>         >reasonable OP_RETURN proposal.  I don't know if it would be
>>>         persuasive, but
>>>         >it would at least be coherent.
>>>
>>>         I don't think it's worth the technical complexity trying to
>>>         carefully argue a specific limit. Let users decide for
>>>         themselves how they want to use OpReturn.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Even better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>     bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>>     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Sophia-Antipolis, France
>>     CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
>>     LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
>>     GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
>>     A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
>>     A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
>>     Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
>>     Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
>>     torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
>>     node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
>>     Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
>>     Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
>
>     -- 
>     Sophia-Antipolis, France
>     CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
>     LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
>     GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
>     A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
>     A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
>     Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
>     Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
>     torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
>     node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
>     Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
>     Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     bitcoin-dev mailing list
>     bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com


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<html>
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    <p>Hi Claus,</p>
    <p>Thanks but I am not sure to understand the solution, how the
      transaction will look like and will it be standard ?</p>
    <p>Regards</p>
    <p>Aymeric</p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 16/02/2023 à 20:59, Claus Ehrenberg
      a écrit :<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CANPykMq2xCKTVPkQGoRu9iYMdARQKZQq-b5mv3X-7FHKv1FGww@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div dir="ltr">I propose to require all data to be in the
        op_return output PLUS add a required op_return_hash field, which
        is checked by consensus. So that node can re-validate the chain
        without having to store/download/look at the contents of
        op_return data. The benefit of that little redundancy is that
        "content-sensitive" communities can ignore the date they don't
        like.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Cheers</div>
        <div>Claus</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 7:30
          PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
            <p>It's super unclear how long it could take for such a
              change to be adopted</p>
            <p>Then the answer is simple, see:
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation"
                target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation</a></p>
            <p>Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing
              bitcoin back 10 years ago<br>
            </p>
            <p>But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a
              1tx storage solution for the future, then let's bring back
              bitcoin into the past and destroy coins<br>
            </p>
            <div>Le 12/02/2023 à 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a écrit :<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403"
                  target="_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403</a><br>
                <br>
                "What is the process to have someone do the PR for this?
                Or I do it and most likely it will be a very shxtty one
                since I am not a C/C++ expert, then wasting the time of
                everybody<br>
                <br>
                It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a
                dart in the past but changed my mind, it's adapted to
                the current evolutions, not flooding bitcoin with 2 txs
                while only 1 is needed<br>
                <br>
                If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in
                addresses, and super bad at the end because burning
                bitcoins, while still not expensive if you don't need to
                store big things"<br>
              </p>
              <br>
              <div>Le 05/02/2023 à 19:12, Russell O'Connor via
                bitcoin-dev a écrit :<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="auto">
                  <div><br>
                    <br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat., Feb. 4,
                        2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:pete@petertodd.org"
                          target="_blank">pete@petertodd.org</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                        0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                        rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
                        <br>
                        On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00,
                        Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        &gt;Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than
                        bytes in the script pubkey,<br>
                        &gt;there is a crossover point in data size
                        where it will simply be cheaper to<br>
                        &gt;use witness data.  Where that crossover
                        point is depends on the finer<br>
                        &gt;details of the overhead of the two methods,
                        but you could make some<br>
                        &gt;reasonable assumptions.  Such a calculation
                        could form the basis of a<br>
                        &gt;reasonable OP_RETURN proposal.  I don't know
                        if it would be persuasive, but<br>
                        &gt;it would at least be coherent.<br>
                        <br>
                        I don't think it's worth the technical
                        complexity trying to carefully argue a specific
                        limit. Let users decide for themselves how they
                        want to use OpReturn.<br>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div dir="auto"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div dir="auto">Even better.</div>
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                        0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                        rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                <fieldset></fieldset>
                <br>
                <pre>_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a>
</pre>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              <pre cols="72">-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf</a>
LinkedIn: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26" target="_blank">https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26</a>
GitHub : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a>
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7</a>
A bitcoin NFT system: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7</a>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://peersm.com/wallet" target="_blank">https://peersm.com/wallet</a>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions</a>
torrent-live: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://torrent-live.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://torrent-live.peersm.com</a>
Peersm : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://www.peersm.com</a></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
            <pre cols="72">-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf</a>
LinkedIn: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26" target="_blank">https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26</a>
GitHub : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a>
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7</a>
A bitcoin NFT system: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7</a>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://peersm.com/wallet" target="_blank">https://peersm.com/wallet</a>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions</a>
torrent-live: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://torrent-live.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://torrent-live.peersm.com</a>
Peersm : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://www.peersm.com</a></pre>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
            target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf">https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf</a>
LinkedIn: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26">https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26</a>
GitHub : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a>
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7</a>
A bitcoin NFT system: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7</a>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://peersm.com/wallet">https://peersm.com/wallet</a>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions</a>
torrent-live: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://torrent-live.peersm.com">http://torrent-live.peersm.com</a>
Peersm : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.peersm.com">http://www.peersm.com</a></pre>
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