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Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop
 client on bitcoin.org
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Many people that I have introduced Bitcoin to have balked at the massive
blockchain download. When I showed them MultiBit (and Bitcoin Wallet) they
breathed a sigh of relief and got on with it.

A currency lives or dies by network effects. If we can provide the average
low-tech user with a great client experience right from the word go then we
can win them over quickly. Once that is accomplished then more techie users
will likely go on to use a full node which will continue to strengthen the
network overall.



On 27 June 2013 22:12, Alex Kravets <kravets@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Jim <jim618@fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Alex: Yes I think most users migrate to blockchain.info or,
>> more recently coinbase.com. They are both good wallets
>> but I'd like to keep Bitcoin as P2P as possible.
>>
>
> Guys, being a late comer/outsider (I got into bitcoin in early 2012), I
> can tell you that this particular asylum is definitely run by its inmates.
>
> What all the nerdy devs (and I am one so I know) seem unable to
> comprehend, is that regular people out there don't wanna learn all this new
> stuff and new terminology they simply have no attention span for it.
>
> Simply channelling them to a decent client that
>
> 1. Just works (no blockchain downloads and no re-sync)
> 2. Allows to retain control of the private keys
>
> Would be HUGE for mass adoption.
>
> Old tired argument about "Bitcoin needs your nodes", so we'll channel you
> to get bitcoin-qt client is both manipulative and unnecessary (there's
> plenty of nodes and NAT'ed home nodes which don't mine are mostly useless
> anyways)
>
> P.S. coinbase.com is just another trust-me setup takes your coins in
> exchange for IOUs, whereas blockchain.info does let you to retain control
> of your private keys.
>
> P.P.S. The reason why coinbase has gotten so big is precisely because they
> don't trouble regular lawyers and doctors with all the nonsense but simply
> give them a
> "buy" and a "sell" button.
>
>
>
>
>
>> Luke-Jr
>> I think you are right here on the number of full nodes versus
>> SPV nodes.
>> I don't think we even know yet what are the working ratios of
>> full nodes to SPV nodes. I haven't seen anybody do any
>> analysis on this.
>>
>> I doubt multibit will ever participate in the Bitcoin network
>> other than as an SPV client. All the optimisation is to reduce
>> data traffic - it is effectively a mobile wallet that happens to
>> live on a desktop. It is not really intended to be more than
>> "a wallet for regular people to store and spend their bitcoin".
>>
>> In English the nomenclature for direction of the transactions
>> is: "Sent to" and "Received with". To be honest I
>> haven't transliterated the localisation files to check other
>> language packs but the localisers are pretty good in my
>> experience.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013, at 07:41 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
>> > > On Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:30:21 PM Jeff Garzik wrote:
>> > >> * Very real possibility of an overall net reduction of full nodes on
>> P2P
>> > >> network
>> > > Even a reduction of *nodes at all*, as I've never seen a listening
>> bitcoinj or
>> > > MultiBit node. :/
>> > > Jim, will MultiBit be adding p2p listening support?
>> >
>> > Without validation listening isn't currently very useful. :( Maybe it
>> > could be somewhat more with some protocol additions.
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
>> >
>> > Build for Windows Store.
>> >
>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>>
>> --
>> https://multibit.org    Money, reinvented
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
>>
>> Build for Windows Store.
>>
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alex Kravets <http://www.linkedin.com/in/akravets>       def redPill = '
> Scala <http://www.scala-lang.org/>
> [[ brutal honesty <http://goo.gl/vwydt> is the best policy ]]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
>
> Build for Windows Store.
>
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

--001a1132eac60626a204e029eec4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Many people that I have introduced Bitcoin to have balked =
at the massive blockchain download. When I showed them MultiBit (and Bitcoi=
n Wallet) they breathed a sigh of relief and got on with it.<div><br></div>
<div>A currency lives or dies by network effects. If we can provide the ave=
rage low-tech user with a great client experience right from the word go th=
en we can win them over quickly. Once that is accomplished then more techie=
 users will likely go on to use a full node which will continue to strength=
en the network overall.</div>
<div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 27 June 2013 22:12, Alex Kravets <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kravets@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">kravets=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim,<br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Thu, Jun 27,=
 2013 at 12:18 PM, Jim <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jim618@fastm=
ail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">jim618@fastmail.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
Alex: Yes I think most users migrate to <a href=3D"http://blockchain.info" =
target=3D"_blank">blockchain.info</a> or,<br>
more recently <a href=3D"http://coinbase.com" target=3D"_blank">coinbase.co=
m</a>. They are both good wallets<br>
but I&#39;d like to keep Bitcoin as P2P as possible.<br></blockquote><div><=
br></div></div><div>Guys, being a late comer/outsider (I got into bitcoin i=
n early 2012), I can tell you that this particular asylum is definitely run=
 by its inmates.=C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>What all the nerdy devs (and I am one so I know) seem u=
nable to comprehend, is that regular people out there don&#39;t wanna learn=
 all this new stuff and new terminology they simply have no attention span =
for it.</div>


<div><br></div><div>Simply channelling them to a decent client that</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>1. Just works (no blockchain downloads and no re-sync)</d=
iv><div>2. Allows to retain control of the private keys</div>
<div><br></div><div>Would be HUGE for mass adoption.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Old tired argument about &quot;Bitcoin needs your nodes&quot;, so we&#39=
;ll channel you to get bitcoin-qt client is both manipulative and unnecessa=
ry (there&#39;s plenty of nodes and NAT&#39;ed home nodes which don&#39;t m=
ine are mostly useless anyways)</div>

<div><br></div><div>
P.S. <a href=3D"http://coinbase.com" target=3D"_blank">coinbase.com</a> is =
just another trust-me setup takes your coins in exchange for IOUs, whereas=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://blockchain.info" target=3D"_blank">blockchain.info<=
/a>=C2=A0does let you to retain control of your private keys.</div>

<div><br></div><div>P.P.S. The reason why coinbase has gotten so big is pre=
cisely because they don&#39;t trouble regular lawyers and doctors with all =
the nonsense but simply give them a=C2=A0</div><div>&quot;buy&quot; and a &=
quot;sell&quot; button.</div>
<div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Luke-Jr<br>
I think you are right here on the number of full nodes versus<br>
SPV nodes.<br>
I don&#39;t think we even know yet what are the working ratios of<br>
full nodes to SPV nodes. I haven&#39;t seen anybody do any<br>
analysis on this.<br>
<br>
I doubt multibit will ever participate in the Bitcoin network<br>
other than as an SPV client. All the optimisation is to reduce<br>
data traffic - it is effectively a mobile wallet that happens to<br>
live on a desktop. It is not really intended to be more than<br>
&quot;a wallet for regular people to store and spend their bitcoin&quot;.<b=
r>
<br>
In English the nomenclature for direction of the transactions<br>
is: &quot;Sent to&quot; and &quot;Received with&quot;. To be honest I<br>
haven&#39;t transliterated the localisation files to check other<br>
language packs but the localisers are pretty good in my<br>
experience.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013, at 07:41 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:<br>
&gt; On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Luke-Jr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:luke@d=
ashjr.org" target=3D"_blank">luke@dashjr.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; On Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:30:21 PM Jeff Garzik wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; * Very real possibility of an overall net reduction of full n=
odes on P2P<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; network<br>
&gt; &gt; Even a reduction of *nodes at all*, as I&#39;ve never seen a list=
ening bitcoinj or<br>
&gt; &gt; MultiBit node. :/<br>
&gt; &gt; Jim, will MultiBit be adding p2p listening support?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Without validation listening isn&#39;t currently very useful. :( Maybe=
 it<br>
&gt; could be somewhat more with some protocol additions.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------<br>
&gt; This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Build for Windows Store.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev" target=3D"_blank">http=
://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev</a><br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D=
"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-develo=
pment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco=
in-development</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<a href=3D"https://multibit.org" target=3D"_blank">https://multibit.org</a>=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Money, reinvented<br>
<br>
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<br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
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" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div class=3D"im"><div=
><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/akravets" target=3D=
"_blank">Alex Kravets</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 def <span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(204,0,0)">redPill</span> =3D &#39;<a href=3D"http://www.scala-lang.or=
g/" target=3D"_blank">Scala</a><br>


[[ <a href=3D"http://goo.gl/vwydt" target=3D"_blank">brutal honesty</a> is =
the best policy ]]<br>
</div></div></div>
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