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I guess every mailing list should have its own internal SNR discussions.

My answer is to respond when something is off-topic and offer a different
place for the topic.  I haven't been doing that, partly because no one else
has, but mostly because I figured I don't have a strong handle on what is
off-topic and what isn't.  Let's all start doing that.  Of course, someone
can object to the claim, "No, I don't think this is off-topic... blah blah
blah," and people can respond.  The norms will develop.  It just requires
some relative humility, courage, and honesty.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Warren Togami Jr. via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> FYI, a few developers including Wladimir, Greg, Peter Todd, Pieter, and
> Alex Morcos have been discussing what to do about improving the signal
> noise ratio on bitcoin-dev list.  One proposal similar to this discussion
> was to split it into multiple mailing lists.  It was pointed out that the
> less technical Bitcoin discussion list already existed in the past and
> nobody used it.  Generally the discussion went away from creating yet
> another mailing list and toward instituting an on-topic guidelines for
> bitcoin-dev.  Gavin, Wladimir, and a few of the others agreed to a simple
> few paragraphs written by Alex Morcos.  IIRC Wladimir agreed to post it.
> Has it been posted yet?
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > bitcoin-dev for protocol discussion and bitcoin-core for Bitcoin Core
>> > discussion?
>>
>> Well -dev or both, I dont particularly see a difference at the moment,
>> and establishing two lists isnt really going to make a difference so
>> long as Bitcoin Core is the reference client, which it is by defacto.
>> The risk of having too many lists is interested stakeholders will miss
>> a discussions. Normal protocol and core discussions are usually pretty
>> low volume in any case.
>>
>> > As Jorge notes, a general discussion list has existed for a long time
>> with
>> > little use.
>>
>> I would suggest it's only because there havent been any rules for -dev
>> that would force general discussion over to the bitcoin list. On IRC
>> we regularly tell people in #bitcoin-dev they are OT and ask them to
>> move to #bitcoin and as a result, -dev remains quite clear of chit
>> chat, #bitcoin has a steady stream of general chatter.
>>
>> We could reduce the OT/noise of bitcoin-dev list considerably by
>> offloading the non-technical/academic debate to the bitcoin list. It
>> just needs a bit of shepherding. I am more than happy to help out.
>> Especially if the list already exists, we should consider making a
>> decision now.
>>
>> Who are the moderators for that list? Do we really want to use
>> sourceforge or are there alternatives, like another list on
>> linuxfoundation?
>>
>> ping @Warren.
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>


-- 
I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a
techie?
I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com> and Meme Racing
<http://www.memeracing.net> (in alpha).
I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com> which
now accepts Bitcoin.
I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>.
"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi
Nakamoto

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I guess every mailing list should have its own intern=
al SNR discussions.<br><br></div>My answer is to respond when something is =
off-topic and offer a different place for the topic.=C2=A0 I haven&#39;t be=
en doing that, partly because no one else has, but mostly because I figured=
 I don&#39;t have a strong handle on what is off-topic and what isn&#39;t.=
=C2=A0 Let&#39;s all start doing that.=C2=A0 Of course, someone can object =
to the claim, &quot;No, I don&#39;t think this is off-topic... blah blah bl=
ah,&quot; and people can respond.=C2=A0 The norms will develop.=C2=A0 It ju=
st requires some relative humility, courage, and honesty.<br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 1=
2:28 PM, Warren Togami Jr. via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-de=
v@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">FYI, a few developers including Wladimir, Greg, P=
eter Todd, Pieter, and Alex Morcos have been discussing what to do about im=
proving the signal noise ratio on bitcoin-dev list.=C2=A0 One proposal simi=
lar to this discussion was to split it into multiple mailing lists.=C2=A0 I=
t was pointed out that the less technical Bitcoin discussion list already e=
xisted in the past and nobody used it.=C2=A0 Generally the discussion went =
away from creating yet another mailing list and toward instituting an on-to=
pic guidelines for bitcoin-dev.=C2=A0 Gavin, Wladimir, and a few of the oth=
ers agreed to a simple few paragraphs written by Alex Morcos.=C2=A0 IIRC Wl=
adimir agreed to post it.=C2=A0 Has it been posted yet?<div><div class=3D"h=
5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 19=
, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin=
-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><span>On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Jeff Garzik &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jgarzik@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jgarzik@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt; bitcoin-dev for protocol discussion and bitcoin-core for Bitcoin Core<=
br>
&gt; discussion?<br>
<br>
</span>Well -dev or both, I dont particularly see a difference at the momen=
t,<br>
and establishing two lists isnt really going to make a difference so<br>
long as Bitcoin Core is the reference client, which it is by defacto.<br>
The risk of having too many lists is interested stakeholders will miss<br>
a discussions. Normal protocol and core discussions are usually pretty<br>
low volume in any case.<br>
<span><br>
&gt; As Jorge notes, a general discussion list has existed for a long time =
with<br>
&gt; little use.<br>
<br>
</span>I would suggest it&#39;s only because there havent been any rules fo=
r -dev<br>
that would force general discussion over to the bitcoin list. On IRC<br>
we regularly tell people in #bitcoin-dev they are OT and ask them to<br>
move to #bitcoin and as a result, -dev remains quite clear of chit<br>
chat, #bitcoin has a steady stream of general chatter.<br>
<br>
We could reduce the OT/noise of bitcoin-dev list considerably by<br>
offloading the non-technical/academic debate to the bitcoin list. It<br>
just needs a bit of shepherding. I am more than happy to help out.<br>
Especially if the list already exists, we should consider making a<br>
decision now.<br>
<br>
Who are the moderators for that list? Do we really want to use<br>
sourceforge or are there alternatives, like another list on<br>
linuxfoundation?<br>
<br>
ping @Warren.<br>
<div><div>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">I like to provide some work at no charge to pr=
ove my value. Do you need a techie?=C2=A0 <br>I own <a href=3D"http://www.l=
itmocracy.com" target=3D"_blank">Litmocracy</a> and <a href=3D"http://www.m=
emeracing.net" target=3D"_blank">Meme Racing</a> (in alpha). <br>I&#39;m th=
e webmaster for <a href=3D"http://www.voluntaryist.com" target=3D"_blank">T=
he Voluntaryist</a> which now accepts Bitcoin.<br>I also code for <a href=
=3D"http://dollarvigilante.com/" target=3D"_blank">The Dollar Vigilante</a>=
.<br>&quot;He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules&quot; -=
 Satoshi Nakamoto</div></div>
</div>

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