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From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
To: Odinn Cyberguerrilla <odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin for W3C Payments Workshop,
	March 24-25
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On 20 March 2014 02:41, Odinn Cyberguerrilla <
odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net> wrote:

> I wish to state that I fundamentally disagree with this proposal of use
> cases for W3C payments workshop.  Please read my following explanation and
> then do what you will:
>
> At one time I was invited to join the Web Payments conference calls.  I
> considered it and then declined due to the very CLAs that Brent mentioned
> in the message that started this thread.
>
> I was trying to remember the language that I objected to relating to the
> W3C CLA.  Found it: https://web-payments.org/minutes/ As mentioned, I was
> offered to join these calls but I declined due to, in part, the following:
> Upon review of  the page at  web-payments.org, I noticed that it provides
> a means to connect with web payments group by teleconference.  However,
> there is an agreement that the site would require me to accept merely to
> join the teleconference and collaborate with others in the web payments
> group.  I would say "unfortunately," but in my case I will say
> fortunately, I don't agree with the required agreement as shown here at
> http://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/ which is shown as
> follows at https://web-payments.org/minutes/ "There are no costs
> associated with joining the group or limitations on who may join the
> teleconference as long as they agree to the Web Payments community "
>
> Some of the things I don't like about the proposed agreement /
> "requirement" are fundamental.  At the core, it should be understood that
> collaborative efforts, or teleconferences involving innovators who strive
> to develop concepts for eventual development of a social good, for
> example, should not be subject to a "requirement" that anyone agree to a
> license in relation to their participation or contribution.  Such
> "requirements" inhibit innovation and free thought.  For example, the web
> payments group provides that in order for me to participate, I must first
> "agree to license my Essential Claims under the W3C CLA RF Licensing
> Requirements" and numerous other requirements.
>
> Although I was interested in some sort of collaboration with the Web
> Payments Community Group, these CLAs - lengthy, burdensome, and in my
> personal view, highly dubious and potentially restricting with respect to
> innovation and free thought - caused me to reconsider, and thus I will not
> be entering into web or telephone conferences or related collaborations
> with the W3C / Web Payments folks until such time as they remove these
> burdensome requirements which are applied merely to join a call.
>

Fair point, but you need to understand that all specs created by the W3C
are committed to be royalty free.  That's why there's a CLA, but I can
totally see if you or your employer feels uncomfortable with that.  You
might have the best possible interests, but not everyone may be as honest.

Personally, have participated as an unaffiliated volunteer and hobbyist at
the W3C for a few years, I've never seen an issue with this.  In fact, I'm
really happy that they have a bullet proof intellectual property framework
that guarantees all my contributions will never be encumbered by patents or
be charged royalties for.


>
> > Hello Bitcoiners,
> >
> > I have been working on some use cases for the W3C payments workshop. I'd
> > like to include Bitcoin, but I might not have the time:
> >
> > Here is what I have:
> >
> > https://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/wiki/WebPaymentsMobileUseCases
> >
> > Which is editable with a w3c username and password. Just be a member of
> > the
> > webpayments community group: http://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/
> >
> > More formally you can submit a pull request to:
> >
> > https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases
> >
> > -------------
> >
> > Due to discussions with others am attempting to apply the following
> > template:
> >
> >
> > Name: name of the solution
> > Use Cases: Key use cases for the solution
> > Regions and currencies: Any SDKs or APIs which are available to
> developers
> >
> > with the following things to consider (for use cases):
> > (1) add real money to the service
> > (2) buy a physical good in the real wold (e.g., a cup of coffee)
> > (3) pay for physical service (e.g., gym membership)?
> > (4) convert virtual money back into paper money
> > (5) transfer money from one person to another (even if the second person
> > is
> > not signed up for the service)?
> > (6) buy product online
> > (7) resolve disputes?
> > (8) view transactions?
> > (9) secure the wallet
> > (10) etc.
> >
> > Thanks for your time and have a great day!
> >
> > -Brent Shambaugh
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
> their
> > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> >
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech_______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>

--001a11381b50c3c60b04f5002b4b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 20 March 2014 02:41, Odinn Cyberguerrilla <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net" target=3D"_blank">odinn.=
cyberguerrilla@riseup.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I wish to state that I fundamentally disagre=
e with this proposal of use<br>
cases for W3C payments workshop. =A0Please read my following explanation an=
d<br>
then do what you will:<br>
<br>
At one time I was invited to join the Web Payments conference calls. =A0I<b=
r>
considered it and then declined due to the very CLAs that Brent mentioned<b=
r>
in the message that started this thread.<br>
<br>
I was trying to remember the language that I objected to relating to the<br=
>
W3C CLA. =A0Found it: <a href=3D"https://web-payments.org/minutes/" target=
=3D"_blank">https://web-payments.org/minutes/</a> As mentioned, I was<br>
offered to join these calls but I declined due to, in part, the following:<=
br>
Upon review of =A0the page at =A0<a href=3D"http://web-payments.org" target=
=3D"_blank">web-payments.org</a>, I noticed that it provides<br>
a means to connect with web payments group by teleconference. =A0However,<b=
r>
there is an agreement that the site would require me to accept merely to<br=
>
join the teleconference and collaborate with others in the web payments<br>
group. =A0I would say &quot;unfortunately,&quot; but in my case I will say<=
br>
fortunately, I don&#39;t agree with the required agreement as shown here at=
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/</a> which is shown a=
s<br>
follows at <a href=3D"https://web-payments.org/minutes/" target=3D"_blank">=
https://web-payments.org/minutes/</a> &quot;There are no costs<br>
associated with joining the group or limitations on who may join the<br>
teleconference as long as they agree to the Web Payments community &quot;<b=
r>
<br>
Some of the things I don&#39;t like about the proposed agreement /<br>
&quot;requirement&quot; are fundamental. =A0At the core, it should be under=
stood that<br>
collaborative efforts, or teleconferences involving innovators who strive<b=
r>
to develop concepts for eventual development of a social good, for<br>
example, should not be subject to a &quot;requirement&quot; that anyone agr=
ee to a<br>
license in relation to their participation or contribution. =A0Such<br>
&quot;requirements&quot; inhibit innovation and free thought. =A0For exampl=
e, the web<br>
payments group provides that in order for me to participate, I must first<b=
r>
&quot;agree to license my Essential Claims under the W3C CLA RF Licensing<b=
r>
Requirements&quot; and numerous other requirements.<br>
<br>
Although I was interested in some sort of collaboration with the Web<br>
Payments Community Group, these CLAs - lengthy, burdensome, and in my<br>
personal view, highly dubious and potentially restricting with respect to<b=
r>
innovation and free thought - caused me to reconsider, and thus I will not<=
br>
be entering into web or telephone conferences or related collaborations<br>
with the W3C / Web Payments folks until such time as they remove these<br>
burdensome requirements which are applied merely to join a call.<br></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>Fair point, but you need to understand that all s=
pecs created by the W3C are committed to be royalty free.=A0 That&#39;s why=
 there&#39;s a CLA, but I can totally see if you or your employer feels unc=
omfortable with that.=A0 You might have the best possible interests, but no=
t everyone may be as honest.<br>
<br></div><div>Personally, have participated as an unaffiliated volunteer a=
nd hobbyist at the W3C for a few years, I&#39;ve never seen an issue with t=
his.=A0 In fact, I&#39;m really happy that they have a bullet proof intelle=
ctual property framework that guarantees all my contributions will never be=
 encumbered by patents or be charged royalties for.<br>
</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt; Hello Bitcoiners,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have been working on some use cases for the W3C payments workshop. I=
&#39;d<br>
&gt; like to include Bitcoin, but I might not have the time:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Here is what I have:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/wiki/WebPaymentsMo=
bileUseCases" target=3D"_blank">https://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/wi=
ki/WebPaymentsMobileUseCases</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Which is editable with a w3c username and password. Just be a member o=
f<br>
&gt; the<br>
&gt; webpayments community group: <a href=3D"http://www.w3.org/community/we=
bpayments/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/</a><=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; More formally you can submit a pull request to:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases" target=3D=
"_blank">https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -------------<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Due to discussions with others am attempting to apply the following<br=
>
&gt; template:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Name: name of the solution<br>
&gt; Use Cases: Key use cases for the solution<br>
&gt; Regions and currencies: Any SDKs or APIs which are available to develo=
pers<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; with the following things to consider (for use cases):<br>
&gt; (1) add real money to the service<br>
&gt; (2) buy a physical good in the real wold (e.g., a cup of coffee)<br>
&gt; (3) pay for physical service (e.g., gym membership)?<br>
&gt; (4) convert virtual money back into paper money<br>
&gt; (5) transfer money from one person to another (even if the second pers=
on<br>
&gt; is<br>
&gt; not signed up for the service)?<br>
&gt; (6) buy product online<br>
&gt; (7) resolve disputes?<br>
&gt; (8) view transactions?<br>
&gt; (9) secure the wallet<br>
&gt; (10) etc.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks for your time and have a great day!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -Brent Shambaugh<br>
</div></div>&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------<br>
&gt; Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O&#39;Reilly Book<br>
&gt; &quot;Graph Databases&quot; is the definitive new guide to graph datab=
ases and their<br>
&gt; applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,<br>
&gt; this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!<br=
>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech__________________________=
_____________________" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech_=
______________________________________________</a><br>
&gt; Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-d=
evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-develo=
pment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco=
in-development</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O&#39;Reilly Book<br>
&quot;Graph Databases&quot; is the definitive new guide to graph databases =
and their<br>
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,<br>
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf=
.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a11381b50c3c60b04f5002b4b--