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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: soft-fork to make
 anyone-can-spend outputs unspendable for 100 blocks
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On 6 June 2013 21:59, Andreas M. Antonopoulos <andreas@rooteleven.com>wrote:

> Is there any consideration given to the fact that bitcoin can operate as a
> platform for many other services, if it is able to be neutral to payload,
> as long as the fee is paid for the transaction size?
>
> Unless I have misunderstood this discussion, it seems to me that this is a
> bit like saying in 1990 "IP Is only for email, the majority of users want
> email, we shouldn't allow video, voice or images". Ooops, there goes the
> web.
>
> Is it possible to solve this by solving the issue of provably un-spendable
> outputs without foreclosing on the possibility of other types of
> transaction payloads (ie, not money), that would open the possibility for a
> myriad of layered apps above? For example, hashes of content that is
> external to bitcoin, that people want to pay to have timestamped in the
> blockchain, as provably unspendable outputs.
>
> The social compact is to accept transaction for fee. I think it is a major
> mistake to make decisions that discriminate on the content of the
> transaction, saying that some uses are not appropriate. If the fee is paid
> and it covers the size of the transaction, why would it matter if it is not
> a payment?
>
> I could be totally misreading this thread, too, so please allow me some
> slack if I have!
>

+1 we're still early into the bitcoin story ... unexpected reuse should not
be ruled out ...


>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, June 01, 2013 7:30:36 PM Peter Todd wrote:
>> > scriptPubKey: <data> OP_TRUE
>> >
>> > ...
>> > Along with that change anyone-can-spend outputs should be make
>> IsStandard()
>> > so they will be relayed.
>>
>> Data does not belong in the blockchain. People running nodes have all
>> implicitly agreed to store the blocks for financial purposes, and storing
>> data
>> is a violation of that social contract. Proof-of-stake may be arguably
>> financial, but I'm sure there must be a way to do it without spamming
>> people
>> against their consent.
>>
>> > The alternative is sacrifices to unspendable outputs, which is very
>> > undesirable compared to sending the money to miners to further
>> > strengthen the security of the network.
>>
>> The alternative is to make other standard outputs unable to store data as
>> well.
>>
>> Luke
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:
>> 1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations
>> 2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services
>> 3. A single system of record for all IT processes
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:
> 1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations
> 2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services
> 3. A single system of record for all IT processes
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 6 June 2013 21:59, Andreas M. Antonopoulos <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@rooteleven.com" target=3D"_blank">andreas@rootel=
even.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Is there any consideration =
given to the fact that bitcoin can operate as a platform for many other ser=
vices, if it is able to be neutral to payload, as long as the fee is paid f=
or the transaction size?<div>
<br>
</div><div>Unless I have misunderstood this discussion, it seems to me that=
 this is a bit like saying in 1990 &quot;IP Is only for email, the majority=
 of users want email, we shouldn&#39;t allow video, voice or images&quot;. =
Ooops, there goes the web.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Is it possible to solve this by solving the issue of pr=
ovably un-spendable outputs without foreclosing on the possibility of other=
 types of transaction payloads (ie, not money), that would open the possibi=
lity for a myriad of layered apps above? For example, hashes of content tha=
t is external to bitcoin, that people want to pay to have timestamped in th=
e blockchain, as provably unspendable outputs.</div>

<div><br></div><div>The social compact is to accept transaction for fee. I =
think it is a major mistake to make decisions that discriminate on the cont=
ent of the transaction, saying that some uses are not appropriate. If the f=
ee is paid and it covers the size of the transaction, why would it matter i=
f it is not a payment?=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>I could be totally misreading this thread, too, so plea=
se allow me some slack if I have!</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv>+1 we&#39;re still early into the bitcoin story ... unexpected reuse sho=
uld not be ruled out ...<br>
</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Luke-Jr <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:luke@dashjr.org" target=3D"_blank">luke@dashjr.org</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div>On Saturday, June 01, 2013 7:30:36 PM Peter Todd wrote:<br>
&gt; scriptPubKey: &lt;data&gt; OP_TRUE<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ...<br>
</div><div>&gt; Along with that change anyone-can-spend outputs should be m=
ake IsStandard()<br>
&gt; so they will be relayed.<br>
<br>
</div><div>Data does not belong in the blockchain. People running nodes hav=
e all<br>
implicitly agreed to store the blocks for financial purposes, and storing d=
ata<br>
is a violation of that social contract. Proof-of-stake may be arguably<br>
financial, but I&#39;m sure there must be a way to do it without spamming p=
eople<br>
against their consent.<br>
<br>
</div><div>&gt; The alternative is sacrifices to unspendable outputs, which=
 is very<br>
&gt; undesirable compared to sending the money to miners to further<br>
&gt; strengthen the security of the network.<br>
<br>
</div>The alternative is to make other standard outputs unable to store dat=
a as<br>
well.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Luke<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:<br>
1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations<br>
2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services<br>
3. A single system of record for all IT processes<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j" target=3D"_blank">http://p=
.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
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nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>-----------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------<br>
How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:<br>
1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations<br>
2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services<br>
3. A single system of record for all IT processes<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j" target=3D"_blank">http://p=
.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j</a><br>_______________________________________=
________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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