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From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 22:40:19 +0200
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To: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@protonmail.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV
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I've been calling them "controversial softforks" for long.
I hate to be right some times, but I guess I'm happy that I'm not the only
one who distrusts jeremy rubin anymore.

Can we agree now that resisting a bip8 proposal is simpler and cleaner than
resisting a speedy trial proposal?
I guess now we don't need to discuss it in hypothetical terms anymore, do
we?

Is there any PR to actively resist the proposal on bitcoin core?






On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:16 PM Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Ok so we've had to scramble a bit as I don't think anyone except perhaps
> Jeremy thought that there would be a Speedy Trial signaling period for a
> CTV soft fork planned to start on May 5th [1]. That is two weeks away.
>
> (I have to take what he says at face value. I can understand why one would
> be skeptical.)
>
> Understandably this has angered and surprised a few people including some
> of those who have voiced opposition to a CTV soft fork activation being
> attempted in the first place [2].
>
> As I've said in a previous post [3] the Bitcoin Core 23.0 release
> candidate (and older versions) does not include any CTV code or CTV
> activation code. If a miner runs Bitcoin Core 23.0 out the box it will not
> signal for CTV. If by some chance CTV was to activate through some other
> software release Bitcoin Core releases would not apply CTV rules but they
> also wouldn't reject blocks that apply CTV rules. Hence it is prudent to
> prepare for an eventuality where the miner signaling threshold might be
> reached but the community wants to prevent the attempted soft fork from
> activating. (I personally don't think a 90 percent miner signaling
> threshold will be reached but I wouldn't want to bet Bitcoin's future on
> it.)
>
> I've tentatively labelled this effort a User Resisted Soft Fork (URSF) but
> I'm open to better names. I certainly don't want to discourage those who
> dislike or oppose UASFs from contributing to this effort and potentially
> ultimately running a URSF release. If you don't want this rushed CTV soft
> fork to activate we are all on the same side whatever we call it.
>
> For now I've set up a ##ursf channel on Libera IRC to monitor developments
> and discuss working on an additional release that if run may ultimately
> reject blocks that signal for CTV.
>
> The intention of this would be to provide additional direction and
> incentive to miners that the community does not want this soft fork to be
> activated. To repeat running a Bitcoin Core release will not signal for a
> CTV soft fork out the box. If a miner runs a Bitcoin Core release it will
> not signal for CTV.
>
> Apologies that this is rushed. But as always with Jeremy caution and
> conservatism seems to be thrown out the window and we have to react to
> that. It goes without saying that this is not how Bitcoin consensus changes
> should be attempted.
>
> [1]: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps-bip119/
> [2]:
> https://gist.github.com/michaelfolkson/352a503f4f9fc5de89af528d86a1b718
> [3]:
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-April/020235.html
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
> Keybase: michaelfolkson
> PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I&#39;ve been calling them &quot;controversial softfo=
rks&quot; for long.</div><div>I hate to be right some times, but I guess I&=
#39;m happy that I&#39;m not the only one who distrusts jeremy rubin anymor=
e.</div><div><br></div><div>Can we agree now that resisting a bip8 proposal=
 is simpler and cleaner than resisting a speedy trial proposal?<br></div><d=
iv>I guess now we don&#39;t need to discuss it in hypothetical terms anymor=
e, do we?</div><div><br></div><div>Is there any PR to actively resist the p=
roposal on bitcoin core?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:16 PM Michael Folks=
on via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.=
org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:arial;f=
ont-size:14px">Ok so we&#39;ve had to scramble a bit as I don&#39;t think a=
nyone except perhaps Jeremy thought that there would be a Speedy Trial sign=
aling period for a CTV soft fork planned to start on May 5th [1]. That is t=
wo weeks away.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></d=
iv><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">(I have to take what he =
says at face value. I can understand why one would be skeptical.)</div><div=
 style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial;font-size:14px">Understandably this has angered and surprised a =
few people including some of those who have voiced opposition to a CTV soft=
 fork activation being attempted in the first place [2].</div><div style=3D=
"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:aria=
l;font-size:14px">As I&#39;ve said in a previous post [3] the Bitcoin Core =
23.0 release candidate (and older versions) does not include any CTV code o=
r CTV activation code. If a miner runs Bitcoin Core 23.0 out the box it wil=
l not signal for CTV. If by some chance CTV was to activate through some ot=
her software release Bitcoin Core releases would not apply CTV rules but th=
ey also wouldn&#39;t reject blocks that apply CTV rules. Hence it is pruden=
t to prepare for an eventuality where the miner signaling threshold might b=
e reached but the community wants to prevent the attempted soft fork from a=
ctivating. (I personally don&#39;t think a 90 percent miner signaling thres=
hold will be reached but I wouldn&#39;t want to bet Bitcoin&#39;s future on=
 it.)</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">I&#39;ve tentatively labelled thi=
s effort a User Resisted Soft Fork (URSF) but I&#39;m open to better names.=
 I certainly don&#39;t want to discourage those who dislike or oppose UASFs=
 from contributing to this effort and potentially ultimately running a URSF=
 release. If you don&#39;t want this rushed CTV soft fork to activate we ar=
e all on the same side whatever we call it.</div><div style=3D"font-family:=
arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:1=
4px">For now I&#39;ve set up a ##ursf channel on Libera IRC to monitor deve=
lopments and discuss working on an additional release that if run may ultim=
ately reject blocks that signal for CTV.</div><div style=3D"font-family:ari=
al;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px=
">The intention of this would be to provide additional direction and incent=
ive to miners that the community does not want this soft fork to be activat=
ed. To repeat running a Bitcoin Core release will not signal for a CTV soft=
 fork out the box. If a miner runs a Bitcoin Core release it will not signa=
l for CTV.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><=
div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">Apologies that this is rushe=
d. But as always with Jeremy caution and conservatism seems to be thrown ou=
t the window and we have to react to that. It goes without saying that this=
 is not how Bitcoin consensus changes should be attempted.</div><div style=
=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:a=
rial;font-size:14px">[1]:=C2=A0<span><a rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener=
" href=3D"https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps-bip119/" target=3D=
"_blank">https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps-bip119/</a></span><=
/div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">[2]:=C2=A0<span><a rel=
=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener" href=3D"https://gist.github.com/michaelfo=
lkson/352a503f4f9fc5de89af528d86a1b718" target=3D"_blank">https://gist.gith=
ub.com/michaelfolkson/352a503f4f9fc5de89af528d86a1b718</a></span></div><div=
 style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">[3]:=C2=A0<span><a rel=3D"noref=
errer nofollow noopener" href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermai=
l/bitcoin-dev/2022-April/020235.html" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linux=
foundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-April/020235.html</a></span></div=
><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">
    <div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;SFMono-Regular&quot;,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Me=
nlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">--<br>Michael Folks=
on<br>Email: michaelfolkson at </span></span></span><a href=3D"http://proto=
nmail.com/" style=3D"line-height:normal;text-decoration:underline;font-fami=
ly:&quot;SFMono-Regular&quot;,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,mo=
nospace,monospace;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-s=
pacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word=
-spacing:0px" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">protonmail.com<=
/a><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;let=
ter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap=
;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inli=
ne"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;SFMono-Regular&quot;,Consolas,&quot;Li=
beration Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14p=
x"> </span></span></span><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-siz=
e:14px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:40=
0;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre=
-wrap;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display=
:inline"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;SFMono-Regular&quot;,Consolas,&qu=
ot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:14px">Keybase: michaelfolkson<br>PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 =
0159 214C FEE3</span></span></span><br></div>
    </div>

            <div>

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