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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Instant / contactless payments
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It heavily depends on where you use it. Here in UK any card payments are
often limited to minimum of =C2=A35 in small shops that have heavy transact=
ion
fees burden and low margins. Big networks with more resources often let you
pay as little as you want by card, and they more often have NFC enabled POS
devices.
So it's not an NFC or POS limit, but a business decision for these small
merchants. Bitcoin can address this issue for sure, but this doesn't
concern NFC.
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
2014-03-10 16:14 GMT+00:00 Jean-Paul Kogelman <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>:
>
> Just to add some more numbers, in Canada, the maximum is $50 and I've use=
d
> it for transactions of $5, even less.
>
> I use it every day to pay for breakfast and it works through my wallet,
> even with multiple NFC enabled cards in there (though not overlapping). T=
he
> experience is quite smooth; simply tap my wallet on the POS and a few
> seconds later it's approved.
>
> jp
>
> On Mar 10, 2014, at 9:04 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
>
> I just did my first contactless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked
>> very well and was quite delightful - definitely want to be doing more of
>> these in future.
>>
>
> A bit more competitive intelligence - turns out that the experience isn't
> quite so good after all. After trying a few more times to use contactless
> payments, I found it has a ~75% failure rate based on my usage.
>
> By far the biggest problem is also the most predictable - it's very commo=
n
> here for merchants to require minimum payment sizes before they'll accept
> credit cards, often quite high, like 20 CHF or more. But the PIN-less mod=
e
> only works for payments below a certain threshold, I haven't quite figure=
d
> out what it is yet, but in the UK it's 20 GBP so maybe it's about 30 CHF.
> So there turns out to be an incredibly thin price range in which the simp=
le
> touch-to-pay system actually works. Most of the time, either they:
>
> a) Reject cards entirely because the payment is too small
> b) Don't have the right hardware, or the hardware just mysteriously fails
> to work.
> c) Require a PIN because the payment is too large
>
> I'm sure Bitcoin can do better than this.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and thei=
r
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and thei=
r
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:'cou=
rier new',monospace;color:rgb(0,51,0)">It heavily depends on where you =
use it. Here in UK any card payments are often limited to minimum of =C2=A3=
5 in small shops that have heavy transaction fees burden and low margins. B=
ig networks with more resources often let you pay as little as you want by =
card, and they more often have NFC enabled POS devices.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:'courier new',mon=
ospace;color:rgb(0,51,0)">So it's not an NFC or POS limit, but a busine=
ss decision for these small merchants. Bitcoin can address this issue for s=
ure, but this doesn't concern NFC.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:'courier new',monospace;color:rgb(0,51,0)">=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B</di=
v><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-03-10 16:14 GMT+00:00 Jean-Paul K=
ogelman <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jeanpaulkogelman@me.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">jeanpaulkogelman@me.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><br></div><div>Just t=
o add some more numbers, in Canada, the maximum is $50 and I've used it=
for transactions of $5, even less.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I use it every day to pay for breakfast and it works th=
rough my wallet, even with multiple NFC enabled cards in there (though not =
overlapping). The experience is quite smooth; simply tap my wallet on the P=
OS and a few seconds later it's approved.</div>
<div><br></div><div>jp</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br></div><div>On M=
ar 10, 2014, at 9:04 AM, Mike Hearn <<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" =
target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I just did my first contac=
tless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked very well and was quite deli=
ghtful - definitely want to be doing more of these in future.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>A bit more competitive intelligence - turn=
s out that the experience isn't quite so good after all. After trying a=
few more times to use contactless payments, I found it has a ~75% failure =
rate based on my usage.</div>
<div><br></div><div>By far the biggest problem is also the most predictable=
- it's very common here for merchants to require minimum payment sizes=
before they'll accept credit cards, often quite high, like 20 CHF or m=
ore. But the PIN-less mode only works for payments below a certain threshol=
d, I haven't quite figured out what it is yet, but in the UK it's 2=
0 GBP so maybe it's about 30 CHF. So there turns out to be an incredibl=
y thin price range in which the simple touch-to-pay system actually works. =
Most of the time, either they:</div>
<div><br></div><div>a) Reject cards entirely because the payment is too sma=
ll</div><div>b) Don't have the right hardware, or the hardware just mys=
teriously fails to work.</div><div>c) Require a PIN because the payment is =
too large</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'm sure Bitcoin can do better than this.</div><div=
><br></div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>-------=
-----------------------------------------------------------------------</sp=
an><br><span>Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book</span>=
<br>
<span>"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph data=
bases and their</span><br><span>applications. Written by three acclaimed le=
aders in the field,</span><br><span>this first edition is now available. Do=
wnload your free book today!</span><br>
<span><a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a></span></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>_______________________________________=
________</span><br>
<span>Bitcoin-development mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Bi=
tcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-developm=
ent@lists.sourceforge.net</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.sour=
ceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://l=
ists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a></span><br>
</div></blockquote></div></div><br>----------------------------------------=
--------------------------------------<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book<br>
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases =
and their<br>
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,<br>
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf=
.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a><br>_____________________________________________=
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Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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