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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Hampus_Sj=C3=B6berg?= <hampus.sjoberg@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:59:46 +0100
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To: "Russell O'Connor" <roconnor@blockstream.io>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Simplicity proposal - Jets?
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Thank you for your answer, Russel.

When a code path takes advantage of a jet, does the Simplicity code still
need to be publicly available/visible in the blockchain? I imagine that for
big algorithms (say for example EDCA verification/SHA256 hashing etc), it
would take up a lot of space in the blockchain.
Is there any way to mitigate this?

I guess in a softfork for a jet, the Simplicity code for a jet could be
defined as "consensus", instead of needed to be provided within every
script output.
When the Simplicity interpretor encounters an expression that has a jet, it
would run the C/Assembly code instead of interpreting the Simplicity code.
By formal verification we would be sure they match.

Greetings
Hampus

2017-11-03 2:10 GMT+01:00 Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:

> Hi Jose,
>
> Jets are briefly discussed in section 3.4 of https://blockstream.com/
> simplicity.pdf
>
> The idea is that we can recognize some set of popular Simplicity
> expressions, and when the Simplicity interpreter encounters one of these
> expressions it can skip over the Simplicity interpreter and instead
> directly evaluate the function using specialized C or assembly code.
>
> For example, when the Simplicity interpreter encounters the Simplicity
> expression for ECDSA verification, it might directly call into libsecp
> rather than continuing the ECDSA verification using interpreted Simplicit=
y.
>
> HTH.
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2017 18:35, "JOSE FEMENIAS CA=C3=91UELO via bitcoin-dev" <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to follow this Simplicity proposal and I am seeing all over
> references to =E2=80=98jets=E2=80=99, but I haven=E2=80=99t been able to =
find any good reference to
> it.
> Can anyone give me a brief explanation and or a link pointing to this
> feature?
> Thanks
>
> On 31 Oct 2017, at 22:01, bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> wrote:
>
> The plan is that discounted jets will be explicitly labeled as jets in th=
e
> commitment.  If you can provide a Merkle path from the root to a node tha=
t
> is an explicit jet, but that jet isn't among the finite number of known
> discounted jets,
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>Thank you for your answer, Russel.</di=
v><div><br></div>When a code path takes advantage of a jet,  does the Simpl=
icity code still need to be publicly available/visible in the blockchain? I=
 imagine that for big algorithms (say for example EDCA verification/SHA256 =
hashing etc), it would take up a lot of space in the blockchain.<br></div>I=
s there any way to mitigate this?</div><div><br></div><div>I guess in a sof=
tfork for a jet, the Simplicity code for a jet could be defined as &quot;co=
nsensus&quot;, instead of needed to be provided within every script output.=
</div><div>When the Simplicity interpretor encounters an expression that ha=
s a jet, it would run the C/Assembly code instead of interpreting the Simpl=
icity code. By formal verification we would be sure they match.<br></div><d=
iv><br></div>Greetings<br></div>Hampus<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-11-03 2:10 GMT+01:00 Russell O&#39;Conn=
or via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@list=
s.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.=
org</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><di=
v>Hi Jose,<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Jets are briefly di=
scussed in section 3.4 of <a href=3D"https://blockstream.com/simplicity.pdf=
" target=3D"_blank">https://blockstream.com/<wbr>simplicity.pdf</a></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The idea is that we can recogni=
ze some set of popular Simplicity expressions, and when the Simplicity inte=
rpreter encounters one of these expressions it can skip over the Simplicity=
 interpreter and instead directly evaluate the function using specialized C=
 or assembly code.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">For e=
xample, when the Simplicity interpreter encounters the Simplicity expressio=
n for ECDSA verification, it might directly call into libsecp rather than c=
ontinuing the ECDSA verification using interpreted Simplicity.</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">HTH.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Nov 2, 2017 1=
8:35, &quot;JOSE FEMENIAS CA=C3=91UELO via bitcoin-dev&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-de=
v@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"></d=
iv></div><blockquote class=3D"m_3183610566517422745quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h=
5"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I am trying t=
o follow this Simplicity proposal and I am seeing all over references to =
=E2=80=98jets=E2=80=99, but I haven=E2=80=99t been able to find any good re=
ference to it.</div><div>Can anyone give me a brief explanation and or a li=
nk pointing to this feature?</div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div><div=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 31 Oct 2017, at 22:01, <a href=3D"mailto=
:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-d=
ev-request@lists.linu<wbr>xfoundation.org</a> wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_31=
83610566517422745m_-8057571337992392675Apple-interchange-newline"><div><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-vari=
ant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;floa=
t:none;display:inline!important">The plan is that discounted jets will be e=
xplicitly labeled as jets in the</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;f=
ont-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none=
;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;=
font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:norma=
l;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:non=
e;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">=
commitment.=C2=A0 If you can provide a Merkle path from the root to a node =
that</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:nor=
mal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-=
align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spa=
cing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text=
-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-sp=
acing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">is an explicit jet, but that=
 jet isn&#39;t among the finite number of known</span><br style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fon=
t-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text=
-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fo=
nt-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inl=
ine!important">discounted jets,</span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></=
div><br></div></div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br=
>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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