1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
|
Return-Path: <hearn@vinumeris.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3D59125F
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:23:18 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-ig0-f171.google.com (mail-ig0-f171.google.com
[209.85.213.171])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D224A142
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:23:17 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by igcrk20 with SMTP id rk20so15812210igc.1
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 02 Oct 2015 05:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=vinumeris.com; s=google;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:cc:content-type;
bh=7hIeXMOumCBTMfY5PB1MQYd6xYN0nvY0aiEqktSxmuk=;
b=Hrbs12ZdQF+GboJErt1Qv+hoJfcpmrsOcsbDdqqRQfEo7XHzZgpp2Kcr1ck1lN357k
B2YpcedZy1qPr186G9bBJ3W0NX6x0IRQJef18KH9wboa+YBYsXLFWXrJHTTAkFvbTvIo
7vpg8veLAE+AooAx5+5xTKMK+0SNwmIYMF9kU=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type;
bh=7hIeXMOumCBTMfY5PB1MQYd6xYN0nvY0aiEqktSxmuk=;
b=fxAgeH1u3Re5RSSojkBvk82TprWy+cr+9RRK23BP+yDVcfGW2l8BKQmUAr+EcaunLC
LHel3iqltZnghhfDUy51MaN7f78zknnhg09Ta8+8osHRocY9QG4zOyJwUvyA6JzLJxjC
j4XS4boihZm07r0rfxFxMuSOAeendu1UmTMnd6s9AxwJSJFVmWvLqS4BfgbTLmyTd1if
ClbHZGM1g0ZysT7ywkhrkCHNBZMgkPOOWKhvi4zVKx+YaOH6xMriIe+jk6dI/MDFRz2V
+beCQQI/29zacZSvxopcA5p4VOXYaQsZoHpaowanFVYkiNENS/374mecR9uhYIQya5nZ
wD0A==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmEY4PrCW33HGvcN3XMvTitruLQfpgsryj0EgP31QlZamf8512MfhLhTl79o6WZQbYi7MMe
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.50.66.197 with SMTP id h5mr3840357igt.69.1443788597124; Fri,
02 Oct 2015 05:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.50.123.166 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Oct 2015 05:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CADm_WcaKQLTtuOxcvby0VFnhY-qEfC4WChNF+TtEr2yLJr_w-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150927185031.GA20599@savin.petertodd.org>
<CA+w+GKRCVr-9TVk66utp7xLRgTxNpxYoj3XQE-6y_N8JS6eO6Q@mail.gmail.com>
<CAAS2fgSEDGBd67m7i8zCgNRqtmQrZyZMj7a5TsYo41Dh=tdhHQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CA+w+GKRKGS=KZrLtiW8Zbn4EQH_TELfQR+TfrADCMXLR22Q+tw@mail.gmail.com>
<CAAS2fgR_-x4kUkiMTCi+YdpV-6MXaEp+b2ZzrVc9Dqt3rnfAyA@mail.gmail.com>
<CA+w+GKQChBBnXNj0hz5i-D=NqQBpQDReD6fNkONRaQhWaxLTVA@mail.gmail.com>
<CECF25CD-6DF0-412F-9FF4-5AE3249C0A39@taoeffect.com>
<CADm_WcaKQLTtuOxcvby0VFnhY-qEfC4WChNF+TtEr2yLJr_w-g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:23:17 +0200
Message-ID: <CA+w+GKTti0_edCPPPJ6ibZcphfi51MgKdndQy1kyi-0uEXCHRQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Mike Hearn <hearn@vinumeris.com>
To: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6be0e7681b205211e3a24
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,PLING_QUERY,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW
autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Crossing the line? [Was: Re: Let's deploy BIP65
CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY!]
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 12:23:18 -0000
--047d7bd6be0e7681b205211e3a24
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FWIW the "coining" I am referring to is here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D7972.msg116285#msg116285
OK, with that, here goes. Firstly some terminology. I'm going to call these
things SPV clients for "simplified payment verification". Headers-only is
kind of a mouthful and "lightweight client" is too vague, as there are
several other designs that could be described as lightweight like RPC
frontend and Stefans WebCoin API approach
At that time nobody used the term "SPV wallet" to refer to what apps like
BreadWallet or libraries like bitcoinj do. Satoshi used the term "client
only mode", Jeff was calling them "headers only client" etc. So I said, I'm
going to call them SPV wallets after the section of the whitepaper that
most precisely describes their operation.
On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@gmail.com> wrote:
> To reduce the list noise level, drama level and promote inclusion, my own
> personal preference (list admin hat: off, community member hat: on) is fo=
r
> temporal bans based on temporal circumstances. Default to
> pro-forgiveness. Also, focus on disruption of the list as a metric, rath=
er
> than focusing on a specific personality.
>
> I do think we're at a bit of a point where we're going around in circles.
>
> Given the current reddit hubbub, a bit of a cooling off period is IMO
> advisable before taking any further action.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> Mike has made a variety of false and damaging statements about Bitcoin,
>> of which this is but one:
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Mike Hearn via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> I coined the term SPV so I know exactly what it means, and bitcoinj
>> implements it, as does BreadWallet (the other big SPV implementation).
>>
>>
>> On his website Vinumeris.com he writes:
>>
>> Vinumeris was founded in 2014 by Mike Hearn, one of the developers of th=
e
>> Bitcoin digital currency system.
>>
>>
>> On plan99.net there are several embedded videos that refer to him a
>> =E2=80=9Ccore developer=E2=80=9D of Bitcoin. And now it seems he is clai=
ming to be Satoshi.
>>
>> It seems to me that Mike=E2=80=99s emails, false statements (like the on=
e above
>> about coining SPV), arguments, and his attempts to steal control of Bitc=
oin
>> via the contentious Bitcoin XT fork, represent actions that have been
>> harming and dividing this community for several years now.
>>
>> In many communities/tribes, there exists a line that, once crossed,
>> results in the expulsion of a member from the community.
>>
>> So, two questions:
>>
>> 1. Does the Bitcoin-devs mailing list have such a line?
>> 2. If so, does the community feel that Mike Hearn has crossed it? (I
>> personally feel he has. Multiple times.)
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts,
>> Greg Slepak
>>
>> --
>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharin=
g with
>> the NSA.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
--047d7bd6be0e7681b205211e3a24
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">FWIW the "coining" I am referring to is here:<di=
v><br></div><div><p style=3D"margin:0.357143em 0px;padding:0px;font-size:14=
px;line-height:1.42857em;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a=
href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D7972.msg116285#msg116285=
" rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,121,211);margi=
n:0px">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D7972.msg116285#msg116285</=
a></p></div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family=
:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:16.9px;background-color:rgb(=
236,237,243)">OK, with that, here goes. Firstly some terminology. I'm g=
oing to call these things SPV clients for "simplified payment verifica=
tion". Headers-only is kind of a mouthful and "lightweight client=
" is too vague, as there are several other designs that could be descr=
ibed as lightweight like RPC frontend and Stefans WebCoin API approach</spa=
n><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;line-height:16.9px;background-color:rgb(236,237,243)"><=
br></span></div><div>At that time nobody used the term "SPV wallet&quo=
t; to refer to what apps like BreadWallet or libraries like bitcoinj do. Sa=
toshi used the term "client only mode", Jeff was calling them &qu=
ot;headers only client" etc. So I said, I'm going to call them SPV=
wallets after the section of the whitepaper that most precisely describes =
their operation.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Jeff Garzik <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:jgarzik@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jgarzik@gmail.com<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">To=
reduce the list noise level, drama level and promote inclusion, my own per=
sonal preference (list admin hat: off, community member hat: on) is for tem=
poral bans based on temporal circumstances.=C2=A0 Default to pro-forgivenes=
s.=C2=A0 Also, focus on disruption of the list as a metric, rather than foc=
using on a specific personality.<div><br></div><div>I do think we're at=
a bit of a point where we're going around in circles.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Given the current reddit hubbub, a bit of a cooling off period is =
IMO advisable before taking any further action.</div><div><br></div><div><b=
r></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">=
<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>Dear list,<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Mike has made a variety of false and damaging stat=
ements about Bitcoin, of which this is but one:</div><div><br><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite">On Sep 30, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Mike Hearn via bitcoin-dev <<a=
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bi=
tcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:</blockquote></div><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I coined the term SPV so I know exactly what it means=
, and bitcoinj implements it, as does BreadWallet (the other big SPV implem=
entation).</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>On his w=
ebsite <a href=3D"http://Vinumeris.com" target=3D"_blank">Vinumeris.com</a>=
=C2=A0he writes:</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">Vinumer=
is was founded in 2014 by Mike Hearn, one of the developers of the Bitcoin =
digital currency system.</blockquote><br></div><div>On <a href=3D"http://pl=
an99.net" target=3D"_blank">plan99.net</a>=C2=A0there are several embedded =
videos that refer to him a =E2=80=9Ccore developer=E2=80=9D of Bitcoin. And=
now it seems he is claiming to be Satoshi.</div><div><br></div><div>It see=
ms to me that Mike=E2=80=99s emails, false statements (like the one above a=
bout coining SPV), arguments, and his attempts to steal control of Bitcoin =
via the contentious Bitcoin XT fork, represent actions that have been harmi=
ng and dividing this community for several years now.</div><div><br></div><=
div>In many communities/tribes, there exists a line that, once crossed, res=
ults in the expulsion of a member from the community.</div><div><br></div><=
div>So, two questions:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Does the Bitcoin-devs ma=
iling list have such a line?</div><div>2. If so, does the community feel th=
at Mike Hearn has crossed it? (I personally feel he has. Multiple times.)</=
div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for your thoughts,</div><div>Greg Slepak</di=
v><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div>
<br><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norma=
l;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none">--<=
/span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norma=
l;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fa=
mily:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-we=
ight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:=
inline!important;float:none">Please do not email me anything that you are n=
ot comfortable also sharing</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fami=
ly:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weig=
ht:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-in=
dent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:in=
line!important;float:none">=C2=A0with the NSA.</span>
</div>
<br></font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>=
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
--047d7bd6be0e7681b205211e3a24--
|