summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/3b/3aa84e102fed488c9afc150b5fd761d25ac7a0
blob: d08feebd0182a41ad9d18ce775730244acabe209 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <gmaxwell@gmail.com>) id 1XuKHG-0001n1-CB
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:03:58 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
	designates 209.85.213.171 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=209.85.213.171; envelope-from=gmaxwell@gmail.com;
	helo=mail-ig0-f171.google.com; 
Received: from mail-ig0-f171.google.com ([209.85.213.171])
	by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76) id 1XuKHF-0003Tu-JU
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:03:58 +0000
Received: by mail-ig0-f171.google.com with SMTP id z20so5750664igj.16
	for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
	Fri, 28 Nov 2014 04:03:52 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.50.18.102 with SMTP id v6mr33055615igd.40.1417176232335;
	Fri, 28 Nov 2014 04:03:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.107.18.65 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 04:03:52 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CABbpET_VLEZ5W+gTJWYXhafTDWd-dqj79iXjPFkARwV0K3CJTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63C13C3D-5333-4DEA-A42F-A4685DDE09DA@ricmoo.com>
	<CAAS2fgSr7-s-Bg-6Fjs1=dg0WR4JZfWbx2hnSyU4iXRNKHma4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A394B8C-FD24-4134-A8B8-CCAF63ECB5B0@petertodd.org>
	<CABbpET_VLEZ5W+gTJWYXhafTDWd-dqj79iXjPFkARwV0K3CJTg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:03:52 +0000
Message-ID: <CAAS2fgSeMqS9-jkqMR=hH5cLLne_u3iJDig3cTZfnnnZeuf_sQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com>
To: Flavien Charlon <flavien.charlon@coinprism.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
	-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
	sender-domain
	0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
	(gmaxwell[at]gmail.com)
	-0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
	-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
	author's domain
	0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
	not necessarily valid
	-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1XuKHF-0003Tu-JU
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP 65 and OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY
	inquiry...
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:03:58 -0000

On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Flavien Charlon
<flavien.charlon@coinprism.com> wrote:
>> This breaks existing invariants and would make the coins potentially less
>> fungible because they wouldn't be reorg safe.
>
> I'm not sure coins are ever reorg safe. All it takes is a double spend in
> the history of your coins for them to become invalid after a reorg. Because
> of that, there are already less fungible coins. This is why we recommend 6
> confirmations for important payments.

I used the word 'less' intentionally.   A double spend requires an
active action. Roughly 1% of blocks are lost to reorganizations by
chance, longer otherwise harmless reorgs as we've had in the past
could forever destroy large chunks of coins if descendants had the
unwelcome properties of having additional constraints on them. Past
instances where the network had a dozen block reorganization which
were harmless and simply confirmed the same transactions likely would
have caused substantial losses if it reorganizations precluded the
recovery of many transactions which were valid when placed earlier in
the chain.

Additionally your '6 confirmations' is a uniform rule. The
recommendation is just a count, it's tidy.  It's not a "traverse the
recent history of each coin you receive to determine if its script
conditions make it unusually fragile and subject to irrecoverable
loss", which is the space you can get into with layering violations
and transaction validity depending on arbitrary block data.