1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
|
Return-Path: <ali@notatether.com>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACCEC0032
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:06 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F234E4064E
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:04 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org F234E4064E
Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key,
unprotected) header.d=notatether.com header.i=@notatether.com
header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=protonmail3 header.b=HJXKMufB
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.8
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7,
SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id ZMSCl-tsgJdw
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:02 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-0301.mail-europe.com (mail-0301.mail-europe.com
[188.165.51.139])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5F7A400D8
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:01 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org C5F7A400D8
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=notatether.com;
s=protonmail3; t=1699965173; x=1700224373;
bh=fpEfBWemL48jtrHdxQSJbczGST32nPSiXPCZ01UdBRc=;
h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:
Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:
Message-ID:BIMI-Selector;
b=HJXKMufBjGiJGnq10gZQKnmN7J8MXHHQmVCkGSAr/6wBIcxFQQMFjj1yQ9eQhShZX
ieLaQLsXgK+0/PVbCazAyYDVPtwd5ccFuab/T6W1ni+/zANSZoRiMCjLjow9wfayaI
pDbcde+hiT6jtk/9MkqdF0GYLjeahemEDXT7sUIec6wPC5Zgy9pXEWEv4eyvQJR2PD
SRw9RT5OCxWJNjECrBU+uiHa14oh0jy6BsNPDsM2fhJmCCqJMjbDY5wOorgrF+m+36
jVNumSkRgQjmAIAe4kRtxLazagkjD3Z4maDBPsumkrvFGRqjg3ZJZi0Rp/U6mc950F
7QMQJxQuRQSpQ==
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:32:50 +0000
To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
From: Ali Sherief <ali@notatether.com>
Message-ID: <dYhdxKm2HRMk3Z3Qc5rxgxIwI_IMdSMW5pvXEEdIkrnQMRuK7As-O-t5CR3D6W1FHMyA62IA3qrnxltx3D-RMln5KWdz3CPYFWUzFiriGCs=@notatether.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1699963203.5599.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
References: <mailman.15.1699963203.5599.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Feedback-ID: 34210769:user:proton
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 13:30:07 +0000
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Future of the bitcoin-dev mailing list
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:06 -0000
I find Google Groups especially repugnant not not only because what has alr=
eady been mentioned, but Google Groups has a quite clunky and annoying user=
interface that makes it difficult for me to find anything or interest in t=
here.
Usenet was migrated to Google Groups for some reason, and it's very difficu=
lt to search for anything of particular interest using that site.
Not to mention that Google Groups also contains a larger amount of spam (w.=
r.t value), so arguably the moderation burden will be higher.
It is necessary to try to find a way to keep the discussion on a mail serve=
r, since a migration off of it will render many users' email clients useles=
s for this purpose.
- Ali
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 18:51:26 +0000, alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com> wr=
ote:
>
> Hi Overthefalls,
>
> +1
>
> Using google for bitcoin mailing list is not good. It feels embarrassing =
that some developers that built and maintained the only decentralized netwo=
rk used to settle uncensored payments and some of them even working on nost=
r, can't build their own mailing list which is better than present mailing =
list. I have some ideas but it seems the influential developers have alread=
y decided and wont accept anything.
>
> Nostr can be used to build a mailing list which also allows anyone to sen=
d emails apart from publishing events from different clients. We just need =
a new NIP so that nostr relays understand its a different event. There can =
be multiple front end with different levels of moderation to hide some emai=
ls and ultimately one will be used the most. It can use multiple relays and=
relays share some information in NIP 11 which can include an email address=
.
>
> /dev/fd0
> floppy disk guy
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>
> On Monday, November 13th, 2023 at 8:35 PM, Overthefalls via bitcoin-dev b=
itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2023-11-07 at 09:37 -0600, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> >
> > > Google Groups is another interesting option,
> >
> > I don't think I'm the only person on this list that is strongly opposed=
to using google for anything. They are too big and they have their hand in=
everything, and their eyes (and analytics) on everything.
> >
> > I remember when there were virtually no gmail email addresses that post=
ed to this list. Suddenly in 2020 or 2021, we had an influx of gmail subscr=
ibers and posters. That didn't escape me then and it is not lost on me now.
> >
> > Email is great for public discussion for many reasons. The fact that ev=
eryone gets a copy of the data, there is no single central authority that c=
an edit emails once they have been sent out. Anyone can archive email messa=
ges, they can generally store or publish the data anywhere they like. That =
is not the case with web forum content.
> >
> > I like the lightning anti-spam fee idea. That would encourage me to fin=
ally adopt lightning, and it would, I'm sure, produce some interesting resu=
lts for the list.
> >
> > I don't think email should be out of the question. Does anyone besides =
kanzure@gmail.com think that sticking with email is out of the question?
> >
> > Let's do what's necessary to stick with email.
|
