path: root/39/0c0822f27432c36fac036d099ef08991006f16

Return-Path: <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A146C001E
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:35:02 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32BA1401FB
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:35:02 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.199
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3,
 SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id PYSiQJUtRykU
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:35:00 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11])
 by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76379400A8
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:35:00 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-lf1-f41.google.com (mail-lf1-f41.google.com
 [209.85.167.41]) (authenticated bits=0)
 (User authenticated as jlrubin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
 by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 20EIYvls016283
 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT)
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 13:34:58 -0500
Received: by mail-lf1-f41.google.com with SMTP id x11so7272776lfa.2
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:34:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531xyeK5W07WEkwiWRsy7DAeEW1LdakAwMYKOluhWtaVht3TiyEc
 FLxvZdzySgdUJo1TfEna0VFFMKz01zFGl8qnPdA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzd0XgAYOcEv5kMNycgT9gNLqxkgl4/0dToBPq239z+OAjbFAdzY352cEklS7u5j+TVYDKID77Lyoj8Y2WDdE=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8e81:: with SMTP id z1mr7173082ljk.57.1642185296905;
 Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:34:56 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <MtHvJYE--J-2@tutanota.de>
 <F3DA4333-E4BB-4A3F-B050-AA142465F2C8@squareup.com>
 <d1489dc9-e919-fc29-13ac-fcde96f34c50@peersm.com>
 <CAABBXbuxcw+SQz573bRxPdiVq3XYFged=TSmb32ABUfq8_4MoQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAABBXbuxcw+SQz573bRxPdiVq3XYFged=TSmb32ABUfq8_4MoQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:34:45 -0800
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CAD5xwhjoYmTEXmvV6dYMXrOvyzQ9M6CUXZ-Uf8sQDKyRQC0Kpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD5xwhjoYmTEXmvV6dYMXrOvyzQ9M6CUXZ-Uf8sQDKyRQC0Kpg@mail.gmail.com>
To: qmccormick13 <qmccormick13@gmail.com>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000047091405d58f0f47"
Cc: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>, info@bitcoindefensefund.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Legal Defense Fund
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:35:02 -0000

--00000000000047091405d58f0f47
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If I understand the intent of your message correctly, that's unfortunately
not how the law works.

If there is a case that is precedent setting, whether it directly involves
bitcoin or not, a bitcoin focused legal fund might want to either offer
representation or file an amicus brief to guide the court to making a
decision beneficial to Bitcoin Developers.

More than likely, some of these cases would involve developers of
alternative projects (as they might be "ahead of the curve" on legal
problems) and heading off a strong precedent for other communities would be
protective for Bitcoiners in general. As an example, were the developers
building Rollups on Ethereum to face a legal threat, since we might one day
want similar software for Bitcoin, ensuring a good outcome for them helps
Bitcoin.

That said, all organizations must at some point have a defined scope, and
it seems the BLDF is primarily focused for now on things impacting the
developers of Bitcoin or software for bitcoin specifically. I "trust" the
legal team behind BLDF will form a coherent strategy around what is
relevant to Bitcoin defense, even if the particulars of a case are not
directly about Bitcoin.

cheers,

Jeremy
--
@JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 10:25 AM qmccormick13 via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> I very much hope the fund will not finance lawsuits irrelevant to bitcoin=
.
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:23 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> (P2P?) Electronic Cash (Defense?) Fund or Electronic Cash Foundation ?
>> More neutral, potentially covering others than Bitcoin, mimicking a bit
>> EFF (even if as stated US is not the only target), referring to
>> Satoshi's paper where everything started
>>
>> Maybe I am not up to date but it would be good to know what are the
>> current procedures with the Tulip thing
>>
>> Aymeric
>>
>>
>> Le 13/01/2022 =C3=A0 19:20, jack via bitcoin-dev a =C3=A9crit :
>> > Hi Prayank,
>> >
>> >> On 13 Jan 2022, at 10:13, Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de> wrote:
>> >> I had few suggestions and feel free to ignore them if they do not mak=
e
>> sense:
>> >>
>> >> 1.Name of this fund could be anything and 'The Bitcoin Legal Defense
>> Fund' can be confusing or misleading for newbies. There is nothing offic=
ial
>> in Bitcoin however people believe things written in news articles and so=
me
>> of them might consider it as an official bitcoin legal fund.
>> > Excellent point. Will come up with a better name.
>> >
>> >> 2.It would be better if people involved in such important funds do no=
t
>> comment/influence soft fork related discussions. Example: Alex Morcos ha=
d
>> some opinions about activation mechanism during Taproot soft fork IIRC.
>> > Yes. Will think through this and board operating principles we can
>> share publicly, which would probably include criteria for how cases are
>> chosen, to protect against this board and fund influencing direction.
>> >
>> > Open to ideas and suggestions on all.
>> >
>> > jack
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

--00000000000047091405d58f0f47
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">If I understand the inten=
t of your message correctly, that&#39;s unfortunately not how the law works=
.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#=
000000">If there is a case that is=C2=A0precedent=C2=A0setting, whether it =
directly involves bitcoin or not, a bitcoin focused legal fund might want t=
o either offer representation or file an amicus brief to guide the court to=
 making a decision beneficial to Bitcoin Developers.</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small=
;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">More than likely=
, some of these cases would involve developers of alternative projects (as =
they might be &quot;ahead of the curve&quot; on legal problems) and heading=
 off a strong precedent for other communities would be protective for Bitco=
iners in general. As an example, were the developers building=C2=A0Rollups =
on Ethereum to face a legal threat, since we might one day want similar sof=
tware for Bitcoin, ensuring a good outcome for them helps Bitcoin.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">T=
hat said, all organizations must at some point have a defined scope, and it=
 seems the BLDF is primarily focused for now on things impacting the develo=
pers of Bitcoin or software for bitcoin specifically. I &quot;trust&quot; t=
he legal team behind BLDF will form a coherent strategy around what is rele=
vant to Bitcoin defense, even if the particulars of a case are not directly=
 about Bitcoin.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small;color:#000000">cheers,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Jeremy</div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">-=
-<br><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_blank">@JeremyR=
ubin</a><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_blank"></a><=
/div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 10:25 AM qmccormick13 via bitc=
oin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoi=
n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"ltr">I very much hope the fund will not finance lawsuits irrele=
vant to bitcoin. <br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:23 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitc=
oin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=
=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">(P2P?) Electronic Cash (Defense?) Fund or Electronic Cash F=
oundation ?<br>
More neutral, potentially covering others than Bitcoin, mimicking a bit<br>
EFF (even if as stated US is not the only target), referring to<br>
Satoshi&#39;s paper where everything started<br>
<br>
Maybe I am not up to date but it would be good to know what are the<br>
current procedures with the Tulip thing<br>
<br>
Aymeric<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 13/01/2022 =C3=A0 19:20, jack via bitcoin-dev a =C3=A9crit :<br>
&gt; Hi Prayank,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 13 Jan 2022, at 10:13, Prayank &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:prayank@tu=
tanota.de" target=3D"_blank">prayank@tutanota.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; I had few suggestions and feel free to ignore them if they do not =
make sense:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 1.Name of this fund could be anything and &#39;The Bitcoin Legal D=
efense Fund&#39; can be confusing or misleading for newbies. There is nothi=
ng official in Bitcoin however people believe things written in news articl=
es and some of them might consider it as an official bitcoin legal fund.<br=
>
&gt; Excellent point. Will come up with a better name.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 2.It would be better if people involved in such important funds do=
 not comment/influence soft fork related discussions. Example: Alex Morcos =
had some opinions about activation mechanism during Taproot soft fork IIRC.=
<br>
&gt; Yes. Will think through this and board operating principles we can sha=
re publicly, which would probably include criteria for how cases are chosen=
, to protect against this board and fund influencing direction.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Open to ideas and suggestions on all.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; jack<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-=
dev" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000047091405d58f0f47--