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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2025 11:37:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "'Ben Westgate' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Proposal] Add BIP-0093 (Codex32) as application
 to BIP-0085
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Hi Javier,

Thank you for your feedback.=20

I added pseudocode for the character value selection. I added a column and=
=20
row to the n table to clarify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed the not=
es=20
and in the unshared secret section made the normative statement: 'When thre=
shold=20
=3D=3D "0", n MUST be *1* and the output is a codex32 secret.'

I=E2=80=99ve updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate your re=
view.

Commit:=20
https://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d1=
2284ef02

Best regards, Ben Westgate


On Monday, September 1, 2025 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos wrot=
e:

> Hi Ben,
>
> Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex32) as an=20
> application within BIP-0085
>
> Reviewing the specification,  I believe I see two areas where we could=20
> improve clarity for implementers:
>
> 1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit from explicit=
=20
> pseudocode to avoid implementation variations
> 2) The rule 'threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1' currently appears as =
a note=20
> but could be clearer as a normative requirement"
>
> Best Regards,
> Javier Mateos
>
> El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> Hello bitcoin-dev,
>>
>> I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic wall=
et=20
>> backups and seed management.
>>
>> Per BIP-0002, I propose listing *BIP-0093 (codex32)*=20
>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki> as an=
=20
>> application of
>> *BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP32 Keychains)=20
>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki>*,=20
>> similar to the existing BIP39 application. This allows wallets to derive=
=20
>> codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.
>>
>> *Summary*=20
>>
>>    -=20
>>   =20
>>    Application number: 93'
>>    - Derivation path:=20
>>    m/83696968'/93'/{hrp}'/{threshold}'/{n}'/{byte_length}'/{id0}'/{id1}'=
/{id2}'/{id3}'/{index}'=20
>>   =20
>> Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-readable encoding with=20
>> checksumming and share indexing designed for SSS backups of BIP-0032 see=
ds.=20
>> This PR proposes a deterministic way to generate codex32 strings using=
=20
>> BIP-85.
>>
>> *Rationale*=20
>>
>>    -=20
>>   =20
>>    Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.
>>    -=20
>>   =20
>>    Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and=
=20
>>    secret sharing features compared to BIP-39.
>>    -=20
>>   =20
>>    Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from=
=20
>>    BIP-85-derived entropy
>>    -=20
>>   =20
>>    Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.
>>   =20
>> *Risks and alternatives*=20
>>
>>    -=20
>>   =20
>>    Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft PR #32652=
=20
>>    <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.c=
om>=20
>>    for importing codex32 strings to Bitcoin Core has support.
>>    - Codex32 implementers could use the BIP-85 dice application, but=20
>>    defining a direct application improves interoperability.
>>
>> PR:=20
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex3=
2=20
>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex=
32?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.com>
>>
>> Feedback is welcome.
>> Best regards,
>> Ben Westgate
>
>

--=20
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<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;">Hi Javier,</p>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;">Thank you for your feedbac=
k. </p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;">I added pseudocode =
for the character value selection. I added a column and row to the n table =
to clarify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed the notes and in the unsha=
red secret section made the normative statement: 'When <span>threshold =3D=
=3D "0"</span>, <span>n</span> MUST be <i>1</i> and the output is a codex32=
 secret.'</p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;">I=E2=80=99ve =
updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate your review.</p><p d=
ir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;">Commit: https://github.com/Ben=
Westgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12284ef02</p>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;">Best regards,
Ben Westgate</p><br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Monday, September 1, 2025 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5=
 Javier Mateos wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-lef=
t: 1ex;">Hi Ben,<br><br>Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (=
codex32) as an application within BIP-0085<br><br>Reviewing the specificati=
on, =C2=A0I believe I see two areas where we could improve clarity for impl=
ementers:<br><br>1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit=
 from explicit pseudocode to avoid implementation variations<br>2) The rule=
 &#39;threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1&#39; currently appears as a not=
e but could be clearer as a normative requirement&quot;<br><br>Best Regards=
,<br>Javier Mateos<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben=
 Westgate escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex"><p>Hello bitcoin-dev,</p>
<p>I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic wall=
et backups and seed management.</p>
<p>Per BIP-0002, I propose listing <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bi=
ps/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-=
saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://githu=
b.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;us=
t=3D1756837897765000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0MaS_HEldjMDPZrWyRpVJi"><strong>BIP-00=
93 (codex32)</strong></a> as an application of<br>
<strong><a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.med=
iawiki" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://=
www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/mas=
ter/bip-0085.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1756837897765000&amp;us=
g=3DAOvVaw2wFpaB_xsJF--kNZR8ZHIA">BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP3=
2 Keychains)</a></strong>, similar to the existing BIP39 application. This =
allows
wallets to  derive codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.</p>
<p><span><b>Summary</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Application number: <span>93&#39;</span></p>
</li><li>
Derivation path: <span>m/83696968&#39;/93&#39;/{hrp}&#39;/{threshold}&#39;/=
{n}&#39;/{byte_length}&#39;/{id0}&#39;/{id1}&#39;/{id2}&#39;/{id3}&#39;/{in=
dex}&#39;</span> <br></li></ul><p>Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-re=
adable encoding with checksumming and share indexing designed for SSS backu=
ps of BIP-0032 seeds. This PR proposes a deterministic way to generate code=
x32 strings using BIP-85.</p>
<p><span><b>Rationale</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and sec=
ret sharing features compared to BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from BIP=
-85-derived entropy<br></p>
</li><li>
<p>Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.<br></=
p></li></ul><p>
</p><p><b><span>Risks and alternatives</span></b>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft <a rel=3D"no=
opener nofollow" href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_=
source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www=
.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/326=
52?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1756837897765000&a=
mp;usg=3DAOvVaw1btfWCQp5N-6nOzg1Ffio5">PR #32652</a> for importing codex32 =
strings to Bitcoin Core has support.</p></li><li>Codex32 implementers could=
 use the BIP-85 dice application, but defining a direct application improve=
s interoperability.</li></ul><p>PR: <a rel=3D"noopener nofollow" href=3D"ht=
tps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm=
_source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://ww=
w.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/ma=
ster...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail=
&amp;ust=3D1756837897765000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0Pa-lQ9NseEarHEx9xwplw">https:/=
/github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32</a></p><=
p>Feedback is welcome.</p>Best regards,<br>Ben Westgate</blockquote></div><=
/blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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