1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
|
Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <etotheipi@gmail.com>) id 1Tfwq2-0000m7-La
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:03:22 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
designates 209.85.216.175 as permitted sender)
client-ip=209.85.216.175; envelope-from=etotheipi@gmail.com;
helo=mail-qc0-f175.google.com;
Received: from mail-qc0-f175.google.com ([209.85.216.175])
by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1Tfwpx-0003YZ-2X
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:03:22 +0000
Received: by mail-qc0-f175.google.com with SMTP id j3so2393244qcs.34
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:03:11 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.49.30.34 with SMTP id p2mr26479620qeh.15.1354644191439; Tue,
04 Dec 2012 10:03:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.229.205.197 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:03:11 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP3=GdyTe+2=cp-ROOJ8_t=yCqO-7GQ4hA-3aksg46p+ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANEZrP3=GdyTe+2=cp-ROOJ8_t=yCqO-7GQ4hA-3aksg46p+ww@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:03:11 -0500
Message-ID: <CALf2ePzFZLmQ2+0hmOO0m_=EFy5mOtJ22jy2CYMxmU5U5e3s1w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc8d26d3ed0304d00aad9a
X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(etotheipi[at]gmail.com)
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's domain
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1Tfwpx-0003YZ-2X
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:03:22 -0000
--047d7bdc8d26d3ed0304d00aad9a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
My personal opinion is that the ideal first client has three features:
(1) Starts up and is usable within a couple minutes (even 10 min the first
time would be okay, to sync block headers)
(2) Supports Windows, Linux and OSX
(3) Uses deterministic wallets that can produce a permanent backup
(preferably paper)
Encryption is a major upside, too, but people new enough to Bitcoin that
they need such a simple client, can survive without encryption (thye're not
going to be holding a ton of coins) -- as long as they are made aware that
they do not currently have encryption, and the associated risks (and other
options).
I think it's extremely important that users have a clear way to backup
their coins to offline media or paper, in such a way that they don't ever
need to worry about it again. Not only does it give users protection
against hard-drive loss, it means that they may find it again in the far
future when they haven't used Bitcoin in 2 years, and it reminds them that
they still have coins (and they don't have to type in 1000 private keys to
get their coins)
For that reason, I think Multibit is an excellent choice. I haven't spent
much time with it, but I do understand it to satisfy (1) and (2) clearly,
and (3) may be happening in the near future (along with encryption). But I
do wonder if it has enough staffing behind it to be the center of attention
(no offense to jim618, but if this becomes the "de-facto" client for new
users, we should make sure there's a lot of people available to support it
-- what if a major security bug is found? how long would it take the
current team to identify, fix and test that bug?)
-Alan
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
> At the moment if you visit bitcoin.org then you're recommended to
> download the full client. I think we all agree that at some point we
> need to start presenting users with something more like this:
>
>
> To get started, download wallet apps A or B.
>
> If you'd like to contribute your computing resources to the Bitcoin
> network and have a fast computer with an unfiltered internet
> connection, download:
>
> - for desktop machines, Bitcoin-Qt
> - for servers, bitcoind
>
>
>
> Obviously not that exact wording.
>
> I personally feel it's a bit early for this, but it's true that users
> are being turned away by the fact that they're pointed to Bitcoin-Qt
> by default, so having some kind of roadmap or plan for changing that
> would be good.
>
> I think MultiBit is maturing into a client that I'd feel comfortable
> recommending to end users who take the fast-start path, though it
> still has a few serious lacks (encrypted wallets aren't released yet,
> bloom filters will help performance a lot, needs to catch up with some
> newer features). But there doesn't have to be a one true client.
>
> The alternative, I guess, is to make Bitcoin-Qt have an SPV mode. I'm
> not convinced this is the best use of time, but if somebody steps up
> to do it, that could also work. MultiBit has some unique features that
> are quite useful like integrating charting and exchange rate feeds.
>
> What does everyone think on this?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--047d7bdc8d26d3ed0304d00aad9a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">My=
personal opinion is that the ideal first client has three features:<div><b=
r></div><div>(1) Starts up and is usable within a couple minutes (even 10 m=
in the first time would be okay, to sync block headers)</div>
<div>(2) Supports Windows, Linux and OSX</div><div>(3) Uses deterministic w=
allets that can produce a permanent backup (preferably paper)</div><div><br=
></div><div>Encryption is a major upside, too, but people new enough to Bit=
coin that they need such a simple client, can survive without encryption (t=
hye're not going to be holding a ton of coins) -- as long as they are m=
ade aware that they do not currently have encryption, and the associated ri=
sks (and other options).</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think it's extremely important that users have a =
clear way to backup their coins to offline media or paper, in such a way th=
at they don't ever need to worry about it again. =A0Not only does it gi=
ve users protection against hard-drive loss, it means that they may find it=
again in the far future when they haven't used Bitcoin in 2 years, and=
it reminds them that they still have coins (and they don't have to typ=
e in 1000 private keys to get their coins)</div>
<div><br></div><div>For that reason, I think Multibit is an excellent choic=
e. =A0I haven't spent much time with it, but I do understand it to =A0s=
atisfy (1) and (2) clearly, and (3) may be happening in the near future (al=
ong with encryption). =A0But I do wonder if it has enough staffing behind i=
t to be the center of attention (no offense to jim618, but if this becomes =
the "de-facto" client for new users, we should make sure there=
9;s a lot of people available to support it -- what if a major security bug=
is found? =A0how long would it take the current team to identify, fix and =
test that bug?)</div>
<div><br></div><div>-Alan</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"=
ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.n=
et</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">At the moment if you visit <a href=3D"http:/=
/bitcoin.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin.org</a> then you're recommended=
to<br>
download the full client. I think we all agree that at some point we<br>
need to start presenting users with something more like this:<br>
<br>
<br>
To get started, download wallet apps A or B.<br>
<br>
If you'd like to contribute your computing resources to the Bitcoin<br>
network and have a fast computer with an unfiltered internet<br>
connection, download:<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0- for desktop machines, Bitcoin-Qt<br>
=A0 =A0- for servers, bitcoind<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Obviously not that exact wording.<br>
<br>
I personally feel it's a bit early for this, but it's true that use=
rs<br>
are being turned away by the fact that they're pointed to Bitcoin-Qt<br=
>
by default, so having some kind of roadmap or plan for changing that<br>
would be good.<br>
<br>
I think MultiBit is maturing into a client that I'd feel comfortable<br=
>
recommending to end users who take the fast-start path, though it<br>
still has a few serious lacks (encrypted wallets aren't released yet,<b=
r>
bloom filters will help performance a lot, needs to catch up with some<br>
newer features). But there doesn't have to be a one true client.<br>
<br>
The alternative, I guess, is to make Bitcoin-Qt have an SPV mode. I'm<b=
r>
not convinced this is the best use of time, but if somebody steps up<br>
to do it, that could also work. MultiBit has some unique features that<br>
are quite useful like integrating charting and exchange rate feeds.<br>
<br>
What does everyone think on this?<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial<br>
Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support<br>
Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services<br=
>
Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p=
.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
--047d7bdc8d26d3ed0304d00aad9a--
|