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From: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>
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To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV
	wallets
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I know the idea is not new. Just bringing it up to emphasize that if we =
don=92t use it how could we expect other networks using it.
Machine to machine micro payments could become the killer application =
for Bitcoin.

1) There is no catch 22 as there are plenty of ways getting bitcoin =
without bootstrapping a full node.

2) let markets work out and not speculate what would happen.

3) Serving archive bolcks does not have to be part of core but could be =
a distinct service written in a language of your choice using new =
protocol.

As mentioned earlier I am for a stripped down core that does nothing =
else than consensus and stores nothing else needed for that task and =
offering SPV api to the wallets.

Tamas Blummer
http://bitsofproof.com

On 10.04.2014, at 11:17, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

> I find it is odd that we who hold the key to instant machine to =
machine micro payments do not use it to incentivise committing resources =
to the network.
>=20
> It's not a new idea, obviously, but there are some practical =
consequences:
>=20
> 1) To pay a node for serving, you have to have bitcoins. To get =
bitcoins, you need to sync with the network via a node. Catch 22.
>=20
> 2) If some nodes choose to charge and others choose to not charge, a =
smart wallet will always use the free nodes. In the absence of any =
global load balancing algorithms, this would lead to the free nodes =
getting overloaded and collapsing whilst the for-pay nodes remain =
silent.
>=20
> 3) The only payment channel implementations today are bitcoinj's =
(Java) and one written by Jeff in Javascript. There are no C++ =
implementations. And as Matt and I can attest to, doing a real, solid, =
fully debugged implementation that's integrated into a real app is .... =
a lot of work.
>=20
> I still think the lowest hanging fruit is basic, boring optimisations =
rather than architectural rethinks.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>I =
know the idea is not new. Just bringing it up to emphasize that if we =
don=92t use it how could we expect other networks using =
it.</div><div>Machine to machine micro payments could become the killer =
application for Bitcoin.</div><div><br></div><div>1) There is no catch =
22 as there are plenty of ways getting bitcoin without bootstrapping a =
full node.</div><div><br></div><div>2) let markets work out and not =
speculate what would happen.</div><div><br></div><div>3) Serving archive =
bolcks does not have to be part of core but could be a distinct service =
written in a language of your choice using new =
protocol.</div><div><br></div><div>As mentioned earlier I am for a =
stripped down core that does nothing else than consensus and stores =
nothing else needed for that task and offering SPV api to the =
wallets.</div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"><span style=3D"color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">Tamas Blummer</span><br style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; float: none; display: inline !important;"><a =
href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com">http://bitsofproof.com</a></span>
</span></div>
<br><div><div>On 10.04.2014, at 11:17, Mike Hearn &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>I find it is odd that we who hold =
the key to instant machine to machine micro payments do not use it to =
incentivise committing resources to the network.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It's not a new idea, obviously, =
but there are some practical consequences:</div><div><br></div><div>1) =
To pay a node for serving, you have to have bitcoins. To get bitcoins, =
you need to sync with the network via a node. Catch 22.</div>
<div><br></div><div>2) If some nodes choose to charge and others choose =
to not charge, a smart wallet will always use the free nodes. In the =
absence of any global load balancing algorithms, this would lead to the =
free nodes getting overloaded and collapsing whilst the for-pay nodes =
remain silent.</div>
<div><br></div><div>3) The only payment channel implementations today =
are bitcoinj's (Java) and one written by Jeff in Javascript. There are =
no C++ implementations. And as Matt and I can attest to, doing a real, =
solid, fully debugged implementation that's integrated into a real app =
is .... a lot of work.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I still think the lowest hanging fruit is basic, =
boring optimisations rather than architectural =
rethinks.</div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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