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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] BIP 322 use case
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KYC is not an intended use case for signed messages, and attempts to use
it for that are probably one of the bigger reasons BIP322 has not moved
further - most people do not want to encourage nor enable such nonsense.
If you absolutely must only allow withdrawls to the user's own address,
I would suggest taking a more traditional approach of asking the user to
affirm it with a checkbox. (This is not legal advice, but it seems crazy
to demand cryptographic proof from Bitcoin companies, when traditional
finance is okay with a mere attestation)
Technically speaking, however, the biggest hurdle is that there is very
little apparent interest in the one limited use case it *is* meant for:
agreeing to a contract before funds are sent. To a limited extent, a
secondary use case has been simply using Bitcoin addresses as a kind of
login mechanism (eg, #Bitcoin-OTC and OCEAN). But the feature with much
higher demand is proof-of-funds and proof-of-sender, which BIP322 began
to address, but turns out to be much more complicated than it seems at
face value (I recently looked into this again as part of relaunching
OCEAN). That being said, BIP322 as-is has already been adopted by at
least some wallets, despite its unfinished state. So if someone were to
pick up this task, it would probably need to be done as a new BIP. :/
Luke
On 5/3/24 19:53, ProfEduStream wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> As a Bitcoin association, we're currently facing an issue because
> we're unable to sign an address with our multi-sig wallet.
> After conducting some research, I came across BIP322 in these
> threads:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408898.0 &
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1347
>
> _Explanation_:
>
> As a Bitcoin association, we offer membership to everyone for a few
> thousand sats per year. To facilitate this process, we utilize "Swiss
> Bitcoin Pay". It's an application that allows us to easily manage our
> accounting. Additionally, we onboard merchants with this app because
> of its user-friendly interface and self-custodial capabilities, making
> it very convenient. The accounting features are also highly beneficial.
>
> To utilize this application in a self-custodial manner, users need to
> paste a Bitcoin address on the "Swiss Bitcoin Pay" dashboard and then
> sign a message with this address. This serves as a
> "Proof-of-Ownership" and is a legal requirement in some regulated
> countries. "Swiss Bitcoin Pay" is not the only application that
> requires signing a message as a "Proof-of-Ownership". Peach, a non-KYC
> P2P Bitcoin application, is another example.
>
> Given our goal to decentralize our treasury, we naturally opt for a
> multi-sig wallet, similar to many companies. However, as you know, BIP
> 322 hasn't been pushed and it's currently impossible to sign a message
> with a multi-sig wallet.
>
>
> _Conclusion_:
>
> I'm unsure why BIP322 hasn't been pushed or addressed in the past few
> months/years, but I want to highlight its necessity.
> Additionally, I hope that this comment sheds light on a deficiency in
> our Bitcoin ecosystem, and I trust that further improvements will be
> made to enable people to sign a message with a multi-sig wallet.
>
>
> I'm available to assist if needed.
>
> @ProfEduStream
>
> --
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<p>KYC is not an intended use case for signed messages, and attempts
to use it for that are probably one of the bigger reasons BIP322
has not moved further - most people do not want to encourage nor
enable such nonsense. If you absolutely must only allow withdrawls
to the user's own address, I would suggest taking a more
traditional approach of asking the user to affirm it with a
checkbox. (This is not legal advice, but it seems crazy to demand
cryptographic proof from Bitcoin companies, when traditional
finance is okay with a mere attestation)<br>
</p>
<p>Technically speaking, however, the biggest hurdle is that there
is very little apparent interest in the one limited use case it
*is* meant for: agreeing to a contract before funds are sent. To a
limited extent, a secondary use case has been simply using Bitcoin
addresses as a kind of login mechanism (eg, #Bitcoin-OTC and
OCEAN). But the feature with much higher demand is proof-of-funds
and proof-of-sender, which BIP322 began to address, but turns out
to be much more complicated than it seems at face value (I
recently looked into this again as part of relaunching OCEAN).
That being said, BIP322 as-is has already been adopted by at least
some wallets, despite its unfinished state. So if someone were to
pick up this task, it would probably need to be done as a new BIP.
:/<br>
</p>
<p>Luke</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 5/3/24 19:53, ProfEduStream wrote:<br=
>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"
cite=3D"mid:9004c5d4-6b9d-4ac1-834c-902ba4901e05n@googlegroups.com">
<p dir=3D"auto">Hey,</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">As a Bitcoin association, we're currently facing an
issue because we're unable to sign an address with our multi-sig
wallet.<br>
After conducting some research, I came across BIP322 in these
threads:<span> </span><a
href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5408898.0"
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">https://=
bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5408898.0</a>
& <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1347"
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">https://=
github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1347</a><br>
<br>
</p>
<p dir=3D"auto"><u>Explanation</u>:</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">As a Bitcoin association, we offer membership to
everyone for a few thousand sats per year. To facilitate this
process, we utilize "Swiss Bitcoin Pay". It's an application
that allows us to easily manage our accounting. Additionally, we
onboard merchants with this app because of its user-friendly
interface and self-custodial capabilities, making it very
convenient. The accounting features are also highly beneficial.</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">To utilize this application in a self-custodial
manner, users need to paste a Bitcoin address on the "Swiss
Bitcoin Pay" dashboard and then sign a message with this
address. This serves as a "Proof-of-Ownership" and is a legal
requirement in some regulated countries. "Swiss Bitcoin Pay" is
not the only application that requires signing a message as a
"Proof-of-Ownership". Peach, a non-KYC P2P Bitcoin application,
is another example.</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">Given our goal to decentralize our treasury, we
naturally opt for a multi-sig wallet, similar to many companies.
However, as you know, BIP 322 hasn't been pushed and it's
currently impossible to sign a message with a multi-sig wallet.</p>
<p dir=3D"auto"><br>
</p>
<p dir=3D"auto"><u>Conclusion</u>:</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">I'm unsure why BIP322 hasn't been pushed or
addressed in the past few months/years, but I want to highlight
its necessity.<br>
Additionally, I hope that this comment sheds light on a
deficiency in our Bitcoin ecosystem, and I trust that further
improvements will be made to enable people to sign a message
with a multi-sig wallet.</p>
<p dir=3D"auto"><br>
</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">I'm available to assist if needed<span>.</span></p>
<p dir=3D"auto"><span>@ProfEduStream<br>
</span></p>
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