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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:39:07 -0700
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From: Ron Elliott <ronaldbelliott@gmail.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] ASIC-proof mining
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--001a11c30e22c89f2b04fd6270a8
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I feel everyone should re-read that last paragraph as it carries the most
weight IMO.
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:50 AM, kjj <bitcoin-devel@jerviss.org> wrote:
> Just some general comments on this topic/discussion.
>
> I suspect that there exist no algorithms which cannot be done better in
> an application-specific device than in a general purpose computer. And
> if there is such a thing, then it must necessarily perform best on one
> specific platform, making that platform the de facto application
> specific device.
>
> I'm not sure how one would go about proving or disproving that, but it
> seems very likely to be true.
>
> IO-bound is exactly the same as memory bound, for devices that have
> enough memory. 20 GB is already trivial today, and you don't really get
> into ask-the-wife-for-permission money until you cross 128 GB. The
> exception would be if the IO was to an oracle outside of the device's
> control, and artificially limited in throughput. Such a centralized
> oracle would be contrary to the goals usually stated by people thinking
> about anti-ASIC designs, so there isn't much point.
>
> Keeping the algorithm simple, and ASIC-easy, has one other advantage.
> Just about anyone can sit down and design an ASIC for SHA, for example,
> leading to diversity in the marketplace. A harder algorithm can still
> be made into an ASIC (or more generally into an ASD), but will require
> more skilled designers, more expensive fabrication, etc. This actually
> concentrates the ASIC advantage into the hands of fewer people, which
> again, is contrary to the stated goals.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
> Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
> Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--
- Ron
end of line.
--001a11c30e22c89f2b04fd6270a8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px=
">I feel everyone should re-read that last paragraph as it carries the most=
weight IMO.</span><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:50 AM, kjj <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto=
:bitcoin-devel@jerviss.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-devel@jerviss.org</a>=
></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Just some general comments on this topic/discussion.<br>
<br>
I suspect that there exist no algorithms which cannot be done better in<br>
an application-specific device than in a general purpose computer. =C2=A0An=
d<br>
if there is such a thing, then it must necessarily perform best on one<br>
specific platform, making that platform the de facto application<br>
specific device.<br>
<br>
I'm not sure how one would go about proving or disproving that, but it<=
br>
seems very likely to be true.<br>
<br>
IO-bound is exactly the same as memory bound, for devices that have<br>
enough memory. =C2=A020 GB is already trivial today, and you don't real=
ly get<br>
into ask-the-wife-for-permission money until you cross 128 GB. The<br>
exception would be if the IO was to an oracle outside of the device's<b=
r>
control, and artificially limited in throughput. =C2=A0Such a centralized<b=
r>
oracle would be contrary to the goals usually stated by people thinking<br>
about anti-ASIC designs, so there isn't much point.<br>
<br>
Keeping the algorithm simple, and ASIC-easy, has one other advantage.<br>
Just about anyone can sit down and design an ASIC for SHA, for example,<br>
leading to diversity in the marketplace. =C2=A0A harder algorithm can still=
<br>
be made into an ASIC (or more generally into an ASD), but will require<br>
more skilled designers, more expensive fabrication, etc. =C2=A0This actuall=
y<br>
concentrates the ASIC advantage into the hands of fewer people, which<br>
again, is contrary to the stated goals.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse<br>
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition=
<br>
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows<br>
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.ne=
t/sfu/Bonitasoft</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
- Ron<div>end of line.</div>
</div>
--001a11c30e22c89f2b04fd6270a8--
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