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Cc: Bitcoin-Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging?
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Why use ripple and not just use the testnet?=20
The advantageous of allowing testnet to be used as an alt-coin are That Non s=
tandard transactions can be tested in a pseudo live environment where becaus=
e the coins have some nominal value people are incentivized to try and steal=
and come up with clever ways of gamin the system. This sort of knowledge wo=
uld be invaluable if non standard transactions are ever going to become a re=
ality on main net.=20
It also allows developers a chance to develop in advance new technologies an=
d services that currently won't run on bitcoin main net but might be enabled=
in the future at which point they can switch over to main net. Additionally=
without any development happening with non standard transactions as current=
ly there is no economic incentive , there might be a strong argument to neve=
r bother enabling non standard transactions as the risk of doing so might no=
t justify in many people's minds the benefits as if no one develops anythin=
g in advance most users might not find the theoretical possibilities worth t=
he risk, thus permanently hobbling the full potential of satoshis idea. Rath=
er if testnet were allowed to act as an alt coin something cool might be dev=
eloped that the main net users might desire enough to overcome the inertia o=
f the status quo.=20
Additionally it should be considered that the time in the future when non st=
andard transactions might be enabled might be so far in the future when bit=
coin has hit mass adoption and changing anything might require far more poli=
tical negotiations between users and devs then currently. Meaning that perha=
ps much more proof of functionality and value as well as testing might e req=
uired.=20
Dennison
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 19 May 2013 15:23, Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org> wrote:
>> Is there a way to experiment with new features - eg committed coins - tha=
t
>> doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt impo=
se
>> a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk=
?
>>=20
>> eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it
>> bitcoin-staging? where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the
>> mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but n=
o
>> native mining. and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to=
>> move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1
>> cryptographically, no exchange).
>>=20
>> Did anyone figure anything like that out? Seems vaguely doable and
>> maybe productive. The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new=
>> feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coin=
s
>> on bitcoin-staging.
>>=20
>> Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. I mean a real live system,=
>> with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking bitco=
ins
>> parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. In this way something
>> potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to th=
e
>> main bitcoin network. eg particularly defenses against
>>=20
>> It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because=
>> some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest
>> without more real activity.
>>=20
>> Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them af=
ter
>> extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early
>> adopters).
>=20
> Interesting idea. I wonder if ripple could be used to set up a transfer s=
ystem between the 'main' and 'staging' systems ...
> =20
>>=20
>> Adam
>>=20
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>> AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete
>> security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and
>> efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls
>> from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
> This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
>=20
> Build for Windows Store.
>=20
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Why use ripple and not just use the te=
stnet? </div><div><br></div><div>The advantageous of allowing testnet t=
o be used as an alt-coin are That Non standard transactions can be test=
ed in a pseudo live environment where because the coins have some nominal va=
lue people are incentivized to try and steal and come up with clever ways of=
gamin the system. This sort of knowledge would be invaluable if non standar=
d transactions are ever going to become a reality on main net. </div><d=
iv><br></div><div>It also allows developers a chance to develop in advance n=
ew technologies and services that currently won't run on bitcoin main net bu=
t might be enabled in the future at which point they can switch over to main=
net. Additionally without any development happening with non standard trans=
actions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might be a stron=
g argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as the risk of=
doing so might not justify in many people's minds the benefits as if n=
o one develops anything in advance most users might not find the theor=
etical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling the full pote=
ntial of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act as an alt coin=
something cool might be developed that the main net users might desire enou=
gh to overcome the inertia of the status quo. </div><div><br></div><div=
>Additionally it should be considered that the time in the future when non s=
tandard transactions might be enabled might be so far in the future wh=
en bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything might require far mor=
e political negotiations between users and devs then currently. Meaning that=
perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as well as testing might=
e required. </div><div><br></div><div>Dennison</div><div><br>Sent from=
my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho <<a=
href=3D"mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com">melvincarvalho@gmail.com</a>> w=
rote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 19 May 2013 15:23=
, Adam Back <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:adam@cypherspace.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">adam@cypherspace.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Is there a way to experiment with new features=
- eg committed coins - that<br>
doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt impose<=
br>
a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk?<b=
r>
<br>
eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it<br>
bitcoin-staging? where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the=
<br>
mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no<b=
r>
native mining. and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin t=
o<br>
move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1<br>
cryptographically, no exchange).<br>
<br>
Did anyone figure anything like that out? Seems vaguely doable and<br>=
maybe productive. The only people with coins at risk of defects in a n=
ew<br>
feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins<b=
r>
on bitcoin-staging.<br>
<br>
Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. I mean a real live syste=
m,<br>
with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking bitcoins=
<br>
parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. In this way something<=
br>
potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the<b=
r>
main bitcoin network. eg particularly defenses against<br>
<br>
It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because<br=
>
some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest<br>
without more real activity.<br>
<br>
Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them after=
<br>
extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early<br>
adopters).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Interesting idea. I won=
der if ripple could be used to set up a transfer system between the 'main' a=
nd 'staging' systems ...<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
<br>
Adam<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete<br>
security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and<br>=
efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls<br>=
from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial.<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf=
.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develop=
ment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development"=
target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-deve=
lopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>--------------------=
----------------------------------------------------------</span><br><span>T=
his <a href=3D"http://SF.net">SF.net</a> email is sponsored by Windows:</spa=
n><br><span></span><br><span>Build for Windows Store.</span><br><span></span=
><br><span><a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev">http://p.sf.net/s=
fu/windows-dev2dev</a></span></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Bit=
coin-development mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-deve=
lopment@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>=
</span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bit=
coin-development">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-devel=
opment</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=
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