1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
|
Return-Path: <gmaxwell@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7BD19C
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 2 Jul 2017 20:56:09 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-vk0-f41.google.com (mail-vk0-f41.google.com
[209.85.213.41])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DF9DCE
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 2 Jul 2017 20:56:09 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-vk0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 191so86816017vko.2
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 02 Jul 2017 13:56:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id
:subject:to:cc;
bh=08dvqyTlCQSZxhEiP8L2gGdGquiN3E+IWeUgNHwf/Nk=;
b=AomDNhrionGnEs1cvG5Rp+DomY8YupnYUpIOPCWcjwGPteHs8uwOl9TAhjmMDwLDwj
vLgym2vXyEzdISWRbBYMZUSnkJ+RduX6VZq6wa/4fsqy8lW1p7191pA3xt1wvzBA1Cqv
hRspdP7lQh/iuHXJQhHZbwKqgZb6Od94+BHrntaT71+8CSgB4S83lBr7QDMk6FlyqMCP
RlBIYAWKK/iNTqkU2V8QmQBFXNVe2ktr2hacsDiMA9oqhF1WknJr75e9FII97KVTu5sk
YvyDWpWrdEgQ6LOOkJet2Yy+URm9P41bQ1P02JiaYKX2ky+/+XUj9ea/AfPArciEkQsz
Wqwg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from
:date:message-id:subject:to:cc;
bh=08dvqyTlCQSZxhEiP8L2gGdGquiN3E+IWeUgNHwf/Nk=;
b=Ixm8in+Tm9322NwtkR9p64o25Ap4WsjGpj7R48WIm/asDODlLdBKEKzrV6VQHtDKc4
ZQShu6sx1O+3xbrrPBRiovL+hYS23wwn48X46kCeNzkKNdJ6ueKtNjM2Krc5zVDerkfv
HokNW0qZS7Cuup+AzFRYGOrGDP94XeYdgGCH76ZROY3KEupCdz6Liwdtup34yBnMZyuZ
P3snSKXkIk0w3wJotwE1oNB8EsVU0J9N9ERVOjD0HyeIo2PHLhPshJhSKHqcvAVhDq2M
5vSD3v+MFtDmdRdiWwOELdH4kpwf7gAfmsRvKzGNHB1ombqghpjxS7cIGTg3oJZTOJT1
8qoA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzLa5T6ZX/KwDoENhSubxyYVjkw1d4rjgil9aBSnv8Bx7klVua1
KcOnEv8ntaDuvQi8dfEvuWMPu6VNLA==
X-Received: by 10.31.236.198 with SMTP id k189mr14643296vkh.39.1499028968495;
Sun, 02 Jul 2017 13:56:08 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: gmaxwell@gmail.com
Received: by 10.103.40.2 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Jul 2017 13:56:07 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <uupN1N30M_M_-fb7bBfHgn2XnpTpRNWCP3BpFiHXDHQiWqUf4u3POgd58tpDZS5fQjSst59JaxFdIRb7qt9Hb8V9QHHKqe0YBAW0XnRBqiw=@protonmail.com>
References: <uupN1N30M_M_-fb7bBfHgn2XnpTpRNWCP3BpFiHXDHQiWqUf4u3POgd58tpDZS5fQjSst59JaxFdIRb7qt9Hb8V9QHHKqe0YBAW0XnRBqiw=@protonmail.com>
From: Gregory Maxwell <greg@xiph.org>
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2017 20:56:07 +0000
X-Google-Sender-Auth: tWcxj72ASpLCzVuW4umeq2MClAM
Message-ID: <CAAS2fgQGDFOm+vmPuJJU2=hpdZE6KC5WPzY6utvFk_g5wPQ58g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Rhavar <rhavar@protonmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,
RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: No chaining off replaceable
transactions
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2017 20:56:10 -0000
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Rhavar via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> ==Abstract==
>
> BIP125 allows transactions to opt into replaceability with a primary use
> case
> of allowing users to increase the fees of unconfirming transactions, helping
> create
> a more efficient fee market place.
I don't really see how this is desirable: Just replace it-- the
receiver foolishly spent it at its own peril, spending a unconfirmed
payment from a third party is something that Core never does, it's
reckless unless you're doing something like CPFPing it to yourself,
which is harmless (either it'll work, or it'll fail and you'll be fine
with that).
Beyond being paternalistic the issue I see with your proposal is that
its contrary to miner income-- you're asking miners to ignore these
spends that otherwise they could accept. This seems unstable-- some
people would ignore your rule even if it were otherwise widely
adopted, leading to the network behavior having higher volatility.
Instead, perhaps a BIP that very strongly advises parties to not spend
unconfirmed outputs from third parties while making a payment to third
parties would achieve your end?
|
