From: QueeneMUSE@aol.com
Date: Fri Oct 22 1999 - 10:29:48 MDT
Micah<<
I have noticed that many people on this list engage in "religion
bashing".>>>
hi
[I am not officially on the list, it was forwarded it to me, since we speak
of this topic lately.]
This post has value. people are religious for a reason. There is always a
payoff.
Why should we tolerate something that is intolerant? Usually custom, taboo
and "niceness". No - religion is and should be, as open for any scrutiny as
any other topic. And it does nto stand up under even the least examination.
Intolerance for religion is an old subject, Micah, you must be new to the
list. It is
not based on the premise you assume below, but rather Extropians and
Humanists have a penchant for rational behavior in humans, & the number one
culprit in causing intolerance, horrors and all sorts of devilry is : guess
what : - )
We all know 'devotion' has stirred up wars, conflict and exploitation for
years. hate crimes, inquisitions, floggings... Worse, it keeps people from
thinking. Ugh.
but bashing, that's a good word.... let's see...
Take 'queer bashing' for example. An entirely different thing than what you
accuse the list of, no? Did you ever hear of an agnostic lynch mob?
What I see important and valuable about your post, however, is that this
(sometimes gleeful) 'religion bashing' - as mild mannered as it is, angers a
lot of good people, loving people, kind and intelligent people, which in turn
ends all dialogue between "us and them". Do we want this? Perhaps....
!! !! Whether we are right or wrong, we are still a far cry from being seen
as 'hospitable, understanding listeners", ' wise teachers' or 'advanced
beings' when we unleash a tyrade against something as personal and
fundamental to a being as his/her core (irrational) belief system. ...not to
say I think those belief systems don't need a good scouring and examination,
but how we do it is key. Understandingly, or condemning and aloof? ... we
alone choose how we do it...
Think of it like taking away your baby's first security blanket... it must
be done, btu how? ah.... you must do it gently, slowly, lovingly.
This is not the list's way, usually. What we do is laugh at them, berate
them, tell tham they are irrational, etc. Even anger surfaces! Why not? The
pious can be quite irritating, and even dangerous!
And - hold on to your flames, people, you are not the first time I have
heard:
Extropy is a faith. ... for, being based on critical thinking, is still
overtly 'optimistic' about future of technology , makes many "leaps of faith"
to the outside observer. Drexler's book for instance, while very scientific,
uses the phrases like this:
--things "Will be made out of" or 'We'll have" certain things after
nanotech--
but we are still in the embryonic, if not theoretical stages of some of
these technologies. yet he speaks as if it was certainty.
After much imaginative talk of the singularity, nanotechnology Artificial
Intelligence - we must finally admit that it requires a highly (to many
people quite suspect) optimistic belief in this or that happening *before*
the actual event comes along.
Whether we lioke it or not, Extropians *are* seen by outsiders as to believe
folly - especially in regards to putting off death! This is understandable,
for it is a new thing, never done before!
Cryonics is high on my list of thing *I* don't believe in, but other people
spend money on!! Seems silly to me. I don't "bash" cryonicists, or accuse
them of believing in pseudo-science (though i feel this way). I repsect them
and admire their audacity, and intent!!!!! Look, I researched the hell out
of it, before I came to my conclusions, even visited Alcor, and went to
seminars, read all the pm,aphlets, because i adore and respect the minds of
those who believe... yet I do not... but I could be wrong...
I merely abstain from it and spend my money on musical equipment and art
supplies instead.
So, Micah, while I am not agreeing with you -- I think your post is a
valuable one, in that people need to be aware of the way they are perceived
there's a lot of self righteousness on both religious and atheist camp
grounds.
Amen, sistah... keep the faith...
QM
>>Most of the accusations against religion on this list are
unfounded or unfair. For example, ridiculing "faith" as belief in
somethin tg regardless of proof purposely ignores the meaning most people
use for the word.
Not to say that most religious people aren't ignorant, but it's not
justified to condemn all religion based on its adherrents. You couldn't
dismiss extropianism, for example, just because no one has been
completely extropist.
>>
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