From: Joshua Clingenpeel (Josh.Clingenpeel@wwu.edu)
Date: Fri May 21 1999 - 14:52:13 MDT
I am glad to see that this list supports hateful people. I saw the same
thing happening on Genius-L, and although in that case I had no sympathy for
the person being attacked, I think Mr. Musick could possibly have things to
say. I agree that the way he has been handled on here has been less than
delicate, and you have asked for any condescencion he has dropped on your
shoulders. This list was suggested to me because of the high amount of
intelligence it boasted, but if I have to sift through so much insecure
name-calling and threats (libel is more evil than condescencion), and I'm
insulted to think that the future thinkers of our world are wrapped in silly
squables. You say he's picking fights? You're not doing anything to stop
them. I already feel used, because this is the third post I have given
today in response to the attacks on David. Leave it alone and get back to
constructive posting.
By the way, I don't think Ayn Rand is the end-all know-all of productive
transhumanist thought. Just because someone suggests a book to me doesn't
mean I'm going to read it, and after all, Jocelyn's suggestion that if he
doesn't read those books, he isn't worth taling to, is so completely
insulting and condescending, I think you're yelling at the wrong person...
Pope Arhat Al-Hazred Mateed XXIII
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael S. Lorrey [mailto:mike@lorrey.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 8:25 AM
To: extropians@extropy.com
Subject: Re: META: What did I do wrong?
Jonathan Reeves wrote:
> Jocelyn Brown wrote:
> > FWIW, you haven't offended me a bit. I don't respond to your statements
> > because you don't respond to counterpoints. Based on that, debate is
> > impossible. Besides, all the points you raised are answered in complete
> > eloquence in both "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged." If you
haven't
> > read these books, I suggest you do. If you have, and you still feel the
way
> > you do, then once again debate is pointless.
>
> Debate is also impossible if someone merely tells you to read one of their
favourite books evry time you raise a point they disagree with.
Those aren't just 'their favorite books' but are also on the Extropians
suggested reading list, and are on the suggested reading list of most every
libertarian around.
> > As to why you have offended so many, I can only proffer my opinion. You
> > espouse ideas such as negation of private property and the importance of
> > society over the individual. To many of us who are on this list, those
> > concepts are immoral and ultimately evil. It is the same thing as a Jew
> > getting offended at someone advocating the Holocaust. The ideas of
> > objectivism, enlightened self-interest, and the importance of private
> > ownership of poverty are the foundation upon which we live our lives and
> > seek to influence the future. If you seek to influence the future in
other
> > directions, you cannot expect anything other than for us to combat you
at
> > every turn.
>
> Immoral ? Ultimately evil ?
> This is a discussion forum for transhuman ideas. I was of the belief that
it was intended for debate between open minded intelligent people, willing
to contemplate someone elses point of view without dismissing it out of hand
because it doesnt happen to agree with their particular world view.
How many times does an idiot have to jump off of a building to learn that
gravity makes you fall? If some idiot spews that he thinks it would be a
good idea if everyone jumped off buildings, I would be mighty worried if at
least a couple dozen people on a list of 300 didn't tell him he was an
idiot.
Even on the most rationally open minded mail list, there comes a point where
somethings are commonly accepted to be just stupid, maybe even evil, ideas.
Mr. Musick does not have the luxury of being a newbie to this list. He
resubscribed, even, after knowing for several years exactly what sort of
people subscribe to this list. To me, his affected sense of blissful naivete
and condescention is personally insulting, while his admitted glee in
'pushing other peoples' buttons I find merely rude and obnoxious. If he
actually beleives many of the things he spews here, he is, in fact, IMHO, an
evil person. If he does not beleive those things, but is merely trying to
pick fights and be manipulative, its obvious he needs the shelter of
geographical separation and relative anonymity that the list provides to
protect him from people he would not dare to do these things to in person.
He's likely to get his nose broken if he tried playing his games in real
life.
Mike Lorrey
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