From: den Otter (neosapient@geocities.com)
Date: Mon Jul 06 1998 - 12:30:43 MDT
Dwayne wrote:
>
> den Otter wrote:
> >
> > --Right now, there are hardly any projects (that I'm aware of) that
> > deal with the practical side of facing the future. Ideally, there
> > would be a transhuman network that could at least partially survive
> > a collapse of society. I know, it sounds paranoid, but when your
> > goal is immortality, and you live on earth, you *better* be "paranoid".
> > Also a >H network of this kind would have many useful spinoffs such
> > as suspension facilities and community forming. One thing that would
> > certainly be needed is a radio network: in case of some disaster
> > the net would be one of the first things to go.
>
> This is an extremely good and valid idea.
> however, the practicalities of communicating effectively over
> intercontinental distances make such a network reasonably
> expensive, and also, if the balloon really DOES go up, you'd want
> to be careful that you aren't targetted by surviving military
> elements zeroing in on your signals.
I'm quite sure costs can be kept relatively low if you use local
networks (so that the transhumanists in a country or region have
a way to get in touch when phones/the net etc. are down. These
[local networks] are the most useful anyway. Maybe it would also
be possible to have one stronger sender per local group, but
obviously some research into radio gear would be necessary for
this.
> > --If you want a "clean" image *and* the practical "survivalist" stuff,
> > you need to create separate organizations. There are already several
> > educational organizations (WTA, ExI, WFS etc) but none that deal
> > specifically with the practical side of transhumanism: how can we
> > maximalize our chances to survive and flourish in the twilight of
> > humanity and beyond? Such an organization would most likely be
> > low-profile, since others do the message-spreading, and would
> > mostly draw members from within the transhuman community. Touchy
> > but practical (or just interesting) issues would be handled on
> > a separate list.
>
> Well, this is also a practical idea. But you're advocating a
> survivalist, apocalyptic group, with all that entails.
Actually, the survivalist "thing" is just a part of a greater
vision to turn transhumanist philosophy into something practical.
Maybe (hopefully) no disaster will happen, and the singularity,
when it comes, will be a pleasant one. But...we can't rely on that.
Many transhumanists belief that there is a considerable chance that
things will go very wrong within the coming decades, and certainly
not all of those are wide-eyed, gun-toting survivalist freaks.
So, what's the logical thing to do for someone who wishes to be
around for an indefinite period of time? Right, you prepare
yourself (as far as finaces etc. allow) for the worst, and hope
for the best.
It's probably a bit beyond our finacial capabilities, but ideally
we'd have this abovementioned network and a couple of old
nuclear bunkers troughout the world with, aside from all the
basic supplies and a fully autonomous cryonics installation etc,
computers & books with as much of today's relevant knowledge as
possible, a bit like the Ark. Of course such databases already
exist, but most if not all are in places that would be prime
targets in a conflict, or they would be occupied by very
unpleasant military folk.
It goes without saying, btw, that a privately owned island would
be even better than the bunkers, being a highly unlikely target
for any sort of WW-style attack, and it's better living too, you're
already in your safe place when the shit hits the fan (always
unexpectedly) etc. Also, unlike the bunkers, the island could
actually be a great source of income too. But, ah well.
> > The problem is, if we were to chat on this list so that it is
> > acceptable and understandable to most people, the discussions
> > would be, um, rather lame. I've said it before, and I'll say it
> > again: what we need is a private list, where one can speak freely.
> > Censorship is bad for any conversation...
>
> Isn't this a private list?
Not really, since anyone can join at the touch of a button and
the files are public (worse yet, they're all over the net due
to HotBot etc.)
> I'm not a member
> of the Extropy Institute,
Neither am I.
> mainly because I can't afford it.
Ditto...
> What
> would happen to me? Would I be excluded?
No. The main list could remain as it is, but a
"transcore" (transhumanist hardcore ;-) list would
be added to the existing repertoire. Basically,
anyone who wants to be on it could join, unless
others identify you as a known "rat".
> I would suspect that if
> someone who strongly disagreed with the issues discussed here
> came along they'd just get bored and unsubscribe. It's not like
> we're all columnists in a newspaper...
Maybe not, but as others already remarked some (new) list members
could be intimidated/annoyed by certain discussions on this list,
like the "survivalist" meme. Also, we may not want to paste *all*
comments all over the net, which is effectively the case with this
list (try just about any topic, and search engines like HotBot
come up with dozens of postings from this list. Great advertizing
trick for sure -- unless it happens to be one of the many not-so-
politically-correct postings).
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