From: Eliezer S. Yudkowsky (sentience@pobox.com)
Date: Sun Oct 12 1997 - 23:54:36 MDT
> > From: Anders Sandberg [SMTP:asa@nada.kth.se]
> > Out of Control by Kevin Kelly.
I believe this book is available (in entirety) on the 'Net.
Max More wrote:
>
> Eliezer: Hmmm, Godel, Escher, Bach *is* a superb book. I worked through
> that back when I was 18. However, as an overview of AI and cognitive
> science, I think that Hofstadter and Dennett's The Mind's I might be more
> accessible. (Or maybe I'll just include both, though this is supposed to be
> a select rather than comprehensive list.) Comments?
"The Mind's I" is philosophy of consciousness, which is intriguing - at least
when D&H do it - but not core Extropy. "Gödel, Escher, Bach" is philosophy
of, AND a basic introduction to, Artificial Intelligence - which is as much a
pillar of Extropy as space travel, Libertarianism, or cognitive science.
> For those who suggested more Egan books, I'll be happy to include more by
> one of my favorite SF writers. I'm not so keen on Permutation City, though
> may include it. I will definitely include his brilliant collection Axiomatic.
From "Permutation City":
Peer laughed. "So what are you going to do? Become a lobbyist now? Spend
all your time petitioning Brussels and Geneva? "Human rights" are for people
who want to play at being human. I know who I am. I am *not* human." He
plunged his fist into his chest, effortlessly penetrating shirt, skin, and
ribs, and tore his heart out. He felt the parting of his flesh, and the
aftermath - but although aspects of the pain were "realistic", preprogrammed
barriers kept it isolated within his brain, a perception without any
emotional, or even metabolic, consequences. And his heart kept beating in his
hand as if nothing had happened; the blood passed straight between the ragged
ends of each broken artery, ignoring the "intervening distance."
I fell in love with his description of uploading. No gosh-wow, but well and
truly _*ALIEN*_. Not to mention that he writes hard science fiction about
speculation on the True Nature of Reality. I'd have said that was impossible,
at least before he did it.
Required reading. Definitely. Even "True Names" or "Marooned In Realtime"
don't get that rating.
"Quarantine" also gets high marks, but as a technical study of why you can't
control humans or Powers by setting arbitrary goals to high levels. As my
aphorism goes: "Trying to control AIs using the Three Laws of Robotics is
like trying to communicate with them using the Lens of Arisia."
> Has anyone read Robert Forward's Indistinguisable from Magic? (I believe it
> used to be known as Future Magic.) I think it may be a good overview of how
> far science and technology can be pushed. Perhaps I'll get to read it on
> the plane this week.
I wasn't impressed. The fiction was amateurish. I don't recall much of the
science, but I don't recall it was impressive. Perhaps I'm just jaded - but
then, so are you. You should really try all of these out on null-X
(non-Extropian) friends, particularly the ones you recommend as introductions.
--
sentience@pobox.com Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
http://tezcat.com/~eliezer/singularity.html
http://tezcat.com/~eliezer/algernon.html
Disclaimer: Unless otherwise specified, I'm not telling you
everything I think I know.
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