From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Fri Dec 13 2002 - 18:09:46 MST
Jeff writes
> Two and two is four. The holocaust either did or did
> not happen. There is truth. All the sophistry in the
> world can't change that. Get over it.
I have written extensively in support of my
claim that as an *ideal*, we should indeed
reify The Truth. The mathematical/physical
arithmetic fact you refer to is so certain
that we can drop the "conjectural" bit, and
say, yeah, it's the truth. Whether the Nazis
killed 14 million people in their concentration
camps is another matter, but is not still not
denied by the vast, vast majority of reasonable
people.
(Charles Hixson notes: Remember that language is inherrently ambiguous. Something happened. Some people call what happened "the
holocaust". Other people, perhaps having a slightly different definition of the word, may not agree that the term applies... So it
is not necessarily an argument over facts (though, of course, it frequently is: "holocaust deniers" generally means people who don't
accept the movies coming from the concentration camps as valid, a clear dispute over facts.")
which now has the effect of alerting me to
the idea that you might not be meaning what
I thought.
Anyway...
I totally agree with you that "there is truth,
and all the sophistry in the world can't change
that". But, Jeff, the whole question revolves
around how one regards one's own knowledge of
the truth.
I'm afraid that the way that you throw the term
"The Truth" around is one reason why many
philosophers are wary of such reification:
they rightly fear that it will be badly
misused by too many people.
> You're wrong, and now you trying to hide
> from it. Get over that, too.
Such silly pronouncements are definitely beneath
the intellectual integrity of this list. You
might as well say "Nyahh, nyahh, nyahh" for
all the real content of your outburst.
> Solve your own problems.
Here is the greatest problem *you* have: you
WILL NOT verbally admit to yourself the existence
of your own ideological blinders. Why?
I admit my own ideological blinders, and work
(many times not so hard as I should---I admit)
to see beyond them. It is *not* easy, and it
is a gross mistake for people to think that
it *is* easy.
I also think that most other serious participants
to these discussions will admit to their own
biases, and will confirm the probable existence
of subterranean processes in their own minds.
It is high time that you also admit it.
The biggest impediment to your own search for
the truth is that you are absolutely convinced
that you already have The Truth. You have
said so over and over. This kind of rigidity
will definitely kill you intellectually.
> In my annoyance, I told John Clark to "shut
> the fuck up". I was wrong. I apologize.
Thanks very much. Most of us (definitely
me included) lose our tempers from time
to time, but hopefully your high-minded
admission here will help turn around the
recent tide of incivility on the list.
> Now get over that as well.
Done!
Thanks,
Lee
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