From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Wed Nov 13 2002 - 21:40:39 MST
Eugen writes
> But, as I said, sometime I might become fatalistic enough to commit
> suicide on a secondly basis. As boring as things are already...
>
> > Have you really placed yourself in the position of the poor
> > prisoner? Didn't you accept my explanation for why (in
>
> Yes. It's equivalent to backups with a lag. If you erase memories, you
> kill the person that is.
To recap, for the sake of clarity. The second hand is at 59 seconds,
and in one more second you will choose "10" or "55". What you
presumably care about, in the above sentences, is your survival.
You are leery of suicide, as are most of us.
You *are* the person at 59 seconds. He's not going to lose any
memories. You might as well consider choosing "55" one second
from now as basically a fork, Eugen. One version of you is
tortured for 55 seconds, and then---at least in your terminology
---dies because his memories are erased.
But when the clock reads 56 seconds again, what do we have?
We have a Eugen Leitl who is a "continuation" of the person
who chooses "55". For that person, it's exactly as if he
were forked through time and became Mr. 56. He has no memory
of anything different.
(Of course, since I view duplicates as selves, I really do
think that my poor duplicate---or earlier self, it doesn't
matter---who was tortured, that he and I are the same person.
But that's not the argument here.)
Yes, I know that this is creeping up on teleporting with
a time delay. But isn't your reluctance to teleporting
with delay due to the anticipated terrified state that
you (one of you) will be in knowing that he's about to
be disintegrated? Well, in the present case the "you"
who's experiencing the 55 seconds of torture hardly
worries about that. He wants to die, in fact.
> I'd rather enjoy 10 seconds of a really intense ride (and think of ways of
> how to return that favour)
;-) yes
> than to snuff myself. Sure, if you keep torturing me
> often enough I might eventually prefer a serial suicide
> (but I'll still kill you for that, once I can).
I understand. But in theory what is so bad about not
existing? You already fail to exist in most European
countries, just as I (alas) fail to exist in all states
of the U.S. except California. If Eugen Leitl were to
cause an identical copy of myself to come into existence
in Europe for ten seconds, then disintegrate it, so what?
I haven't been to Europe and would probably enjoy it.
(Even if I knew that you were going to disintegrate me,
but only, of course, because I've practiced realizing
that it really doesn't matter.)
> > desperation) someone would try to bring down on himself
> > the "55" seconds of torture? Don't you understand that
> > so far as his memories are concerned---and they, not
> > logic, drive us hardest---he would be *rewarded* by not
> > (illusorily) having endured the pain? See Eliezer's post,
>
> What concerns me my former I, as I'm being tortured?
If I read your meaning correctly, all your former person
is thinking about is the dreadful torture and ways to
stop it. He's even wishing for death at that point.
Lee
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