From: Ross A. Finlayson (extropy@apexinternetsoftware.com)
Date: Sat Oct 19 2002 - 22:37:10 MDT
On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 03:25 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
>
>> That's ridiculous. Camera confiscation happens in China, not here.
>
> Your statement is ridiculous. You're not informed, nor have you
> attempted
> to do what you describe. At the very least the tape will be confiscated.
>
That doesn't make it not ridiculous.
Freedom of the press should guarantee the right to chronicle police
activities.
Searching for "confiscated the camera" does bring many reports of people
having their cameras confiscated, there appears to be some blanket claim
about the recording being evidence. A cop in the United States doesn't
have grounds to destroy film. I think that a subpoena should be
required to get a person's camera, but I'm not a lawyer.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22confiscated+the
camera%22
Confiscation of cameras or film is a sign of either a high security
area, which is rare on the real world, or an infringement on the right
to a free press.
Private areas may reasonably request "no cameras", and refuse service to
camera-carriers.
>> You can follow around a cop with a camera. There's a television show
>> called "Cops" for example, they follow around cops with cameras.
>
> I recommend you record the cop giving you the ticket with a camera. Just
> try it. (I recommend it to be better a cheap camera, though).
>
> Just try it. And then report to the list. Okay? Even better, try filming
> an actual arrest of suspects.
>
I've seen tapes of arrests on television. Not all of them were
sponsored and presumably censored.
I'm of the possibly misinformed opinion that I can go to a police
station and get a tour of the whole thing, it being a public building
provided by taxpayers.
>> You can arrest them, it's called citizen's arrest. Being a cop just
>> means they get to write traffic citations, and they're called upon to
>> enforce laws.
>
> Yeah, just pull a gun on an armed cop. It's really easy, and happens all
> the time.
>
You don't have to bring them in, but you can file a complaint against
them. You can ask a cop for his name, affiliation, and badge number and
he will give it to you.
People very rarely pull guns on cops. It would be stupid, the cops are
often armed. I would say that most cops would never need a sidearm
except for its psychological effect.
>> Anyways, cops are just people wearing a uniform.
>
> Yeah, and Godzilla is just a big lizard.
>
Cops are public employees, tasked and equipped to protect and serve the
public. Anything else they are is not a part of their mandate. This is
about cops in the United States, where the citizens have certain
supposedly inalienable protections.
Anyways, some cops are just people, they're just.
There are some problems in the police system. Sometimes innocent people
are intimidated by them. There used to be rampant illegal beatings.
The field draws some unfortunates with sadistic tendencies. Take as an
example the Abner Louima case. I thought that was disgusting. It's a
sign of a major problem. Most cops wouldn't rape some bum with
broomsticks. The prison system is also notoriously a problem. There
are inhumanities in the prison system that should be abolished.
A cop is a person with a uniform, a public safety officer. They have
the right to give traffic citations, and are part of an organization
with sometimes extended arrest powers and a system in place for them to
manage their liability in injuring people as they arrest them.
So anyways, I still think filming police is legal, and constitutionally
protected, so anyone can go around taking pictures for their own little
newspaper they never have to publish.
Ross
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