From: J Corbally (icorb@indigo.ie)
Date: Fri Oct 11 2002 - 17:36:09 MDT
>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Samantha Tennison <xytrope@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Coming Trends: Fading Extropy?
>Hi everyone,
>Here are some trends that I've been noticing that have
>on the whole turned my head upside down from the
>direction I perceived things to be going. More and
>more I've begun to suspect that I have led an isolated
>idealistic life and somehow imagined that liberty and
>freedom, on the whole, were increasing around the
>world, but instead the opposite has been happening,
>even before 9-11.
><snip>
>And here is another surprise from Europe: If present
>demographic trends continue, Europe will become
>muslim.
Unlikely. There'll be a nominal Islamic minority, but the entirety of
Europe is unlikely to change.
>Recently at an Ecunumerical conference in
>England, the head of the Anglican Church called for
>assistance in assimilating Muslims into the
>communities. The leaders of the Muslim church said
>that Muslim's *do not* assimilate, and they they will
>in fact assimilate Europe, and that the majority of
>Europe will be subject to conservative muslim law!
You're overreacting. You do know that the Anglican Church is all but dead,
and is considered more of a hobby church these days? Do you really believe
some Muslim who says his religion will subsume all of Europe? And how do
you think we'd get from modern secular laws to Muslim law? Civil war? Do
you really think Europeans would vote in systems like those of the Middle
East, systems that have parallels with Nazi Germany? Do you think we're
fond of the kinds of practices that pass for "law" there? That we'd tear
up the European and U.N. Declarations on Human Rights?
It's likely the British will remove the special positions reserved for the
Bishops in the House of Lords in the next few years. Many members of the
Anglican church (including many top ranking members) publicly support
Disestablishment, as does a majority of the British public. 30-45% of the
British public have no professed religious beliefs, and church attendance
is at its lowest ever and still heading downward. Their never-used
blasphemy law will probably be gone before 2010.
The power of the Church has been broken here in Ireland. We have sex
shops, escort agencies and topless dancing, things unimaginable 20 years
ago. There's barely a priest under 45 yrs old these days, and few new ones
coming onboard. Most people don't even listen to the public pronouncements
of the clergy. They're a joke (take a look at the TV programme "Father
Ted"), and most people seem happy enough to be non-practising
Catholics. The proximity of the Northern Ireland conflict has ensured
people here have little time for sectarianism.
Islam is not well liked here. Do you really think the IRISH would choose a
religion of alcoholic abstention?
One of the worlds most democratic "Muslim" states will likely become part
of the EU within this decade. In order to be considered for membership,
they've had to change THEIR laws, end Islamic-style punishments, empower
women, provide free speech, etc. If there's such a thing as assimilation,
then who's assimilating who? And they're still not done yet. They'll have
to accept EU wide human rights declarations and do some serious
humanitarian cleanup. If a new wave of Islam was ever to sweep across
Europe, it'll be so moderate, so diluted as to be a "hobby" religion of
it's own. The most tolerant and moderate versions of Islam ever to exist
occured in Europe. We've done Islam, and we're unlikely to go back to
it. But Europe may in future be the location of an Islamic Renaissance
that would make it compatible with modern secular society. Islam will
adapt to Europe, not vice versa.
Many other European nations are moving further and further from having
strong religious movements. In some, non-believers outnumber the believers.
We're not about to embrace religious conservatism anytime soon.
James...
>So unless we escape into the space frontier, the world
>will continue to become more repressive, not to
>mention the increases in one-way surveillance, digital
>lock-downs (DRM), biometrics, massive dataveillance
>and GPS tracking (i.e. chip implants), and Minority
>Report style societies.
>Unless New Frontiers are opened - the end result will
>be the world becoming a giant hyper-controlled
>microprocessor, with ever minutia of our lives being
>regulated in the name of public safety and
>conservative (muslim and Christian values).
>Anyone care to counter any of this?
>~Sam
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and
crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures
to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-Q, Star Trek:TNG episode 'Q Who'
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