From: gts (gts@optexinc.com)
Date: Thu Sep 19 2002 - 14:07:13 MDT
Lee Corbin wrote:
> Probably not "drive to live". Marvin Minsky somewhat famously
> pointed out that we do not have an instinct to avoid death. The
> point, as I recall, was that we have instinctual urges to avoid
> pain and so on, but that death was too recent a concept.
Okay, I will again for a second time adjust my terms to suit you: it's
my contention that you have as part of your person-hood a deep-seated
drive to avoid the great pain and discomfort that you will feel should
your brain and vital organs be deprived of oxygen. Better?
My main thrust in this argument, which you seem to want to avoid, is
that internal behaviors like breathing and the beating of the heart are
controlled by primitive drives or motivations (whichever word you
prefer), and that these basic drives or motivations are part of YOU.
They are not of some other.
To me the above is an obvious truth of human nature. I find myself
wondering why it should even be a topic of debate.
>> I replied by challenging anyone to show me a single person in this
>> world who acts altruistically and who does not do so because it
>> makes him feel good to do so.
>
> And of course, we had our example of the fanatic sacrificing
> himself at the clear and ongoing cost of great pain (as in
> the above mentioned paragraph).
And that fanatic does not act in violation of the principle I am
espousing, except in your imagination. :)
The terrorist fanatic sacrifices himself because it is to him a great
glory to do so for the sake of his party/country/religion/whatever. He
will even tell you beforehand that this is his motivation! To him, his
sacrificial act will be perhaps the most rewarding experience of his
life.
>> I think honest altruists are completely aware of their real
>> motivations for doing good. They will tell you they like to
>> help others because they
>> find it to be a rewarding experience.
>
> Oh, no doubt. This is indeed *often* a factor, even a big
> factor. But I don't think it exclusive.
Please describe an example of an act of sincere altruism that is not
accompanied by and motivated by the sense of satisfaction that comes
from acting for the benefit of others. Show me someone who acts
altruistically but feels no satisfaction from it and I will show you
someone who was coerced into helping others and who was thus was not
truly acting altruistically in the first place.
I'm cutting this short because of time restraints I am faced with today.
-gts
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