From: Dickey, Michael F (michael_f_dickey@groton.pfizer.com)
Date: Tue Sep 17 2002 - 12:27:59 MDT
Perhaps a separate extropy politics discussion list would be in order. I
for one can not find any single particular group of a people on one mailing
list anywhere that are so diverse yet so intelligent. I have found no
better place to learn new things and challenge, grow, and develop my ideas.
There may be tons of politics lists out there, but there is only one full of
extropians =) Perhaps an Extropy SCI list and an Extropy POL list would be
in order. I know I know, yet another list, but I would be saddened to see
political discussions banned from the extropy list.
As per Lee's suggestions and the title of this thread, perhaps this Extropy
POL list could have a more directed goal of achieving a reasonable worldview
based on observed phenomena. Instead of just arguing and arguing, we would
have a goal of actually getting an objective basis for reality (A goal we
would obviously only strive to achieve as best we can) Developing and
modifying our current world view based on these discussions. Topics from
global warming to the Vietnam war could be addressed, with official
extropian 'to the best of our current knowledge' 'this is they way it
appears things occured' and 'this is the way it appears things work'.
Instead of just arguing about whats best (for us, for everyone, for the
world, to achieve the singularity) lets try to decide what actually is best
(this is what logic and reasoning are for, after all), and the set about to
promote those ideals, even if they contradict our individual world views as
we learn about them and develop said ideas. If we strive to be rational and
objective, we will become ever closer to the truth.
I'm not sure how such a system would be set up, perhaps starting with
particular topics, posting differing worldviews, and then the evidence for
and against those worldviews. In 'Paradigms Lost' by John Casti, he sets up
a very similar manner of dealing with some of the biggest scientific
questions, arguing both sides, and then presenting an interpretation based
on the most reasonable and simplest explanation for observed phenomena.
The way I see it, we have three choices, 1) continue arguing and never
getting anywhere except developing our own ideas somewhat 2) Ban political
discussion or 3) use our energies in a constructive manner and try to do
something productive and useful from it which will hopefully work to raise
the global standard of living, breed millions of more brilliant engineers
and scientists, and bring about the singularity that much quicker.
This, btw, is a rough outline of an idea I have been tossing around as a
news source, I would have called it something to the effect of 'The
Empirical Edifist' and advertised it as an objective news source. One should
strive to make such an endeavor as objective as possible.
Just my 2c
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Grommes [mailto:mattg@spinn.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 1:23 PM
To: extropians@extropy.org
Subject: Re: *Why* People Won't Discuss Differences Objectively
Lee Corbin:
>> Yes, of course. But if we were to draw up some extensive
>> list of issues such as:
>>
>> profiling
>> invading Iraq
>> global warming
>> gun control
>> reparations
>> affirmative action
>> social safety net
>> Monica Lewinsky and Bill
>> Vietnam War
>> immigration
>
Harvey Newstrom:
>
> Why are these the top-ten issues on this list? Why aren't we
>discussing the extropian principles instead? I believe that all the
>above are off-topic and should be permanently banned. We can create
an >alternate extropians-politics list for people who must discuss these
>issues. But on this list, we should be discussing transhumanism.
>
I just joined this list and I have to say that the discussion of the
above topics to the tune of hundreds of messages is definately making it
harder for me to enjoy it here. I had thought this list was going to be
about science discoveries, ideas, etc., that are related to extropianism
and transhumanism, instead I've had to mass-delete hundreds of posts on
patriotism, the stock market, and war with Iraq. There are millions of
politics lists around, I would have joined one of those if I wanted to
read about those topics online. Just my 2 cents.
-- Perpetual Progress No mysteries are sacrosanct, no limits unquestionable; the unknown will yield to the ingenious mind. We seek to understand the universe, not to tremble before mystery, as we continue to learn and grow and enjoy our lives ever more. -- Extropian Principles 3.0 LEGAL NOTICE Unless expressly stated otherwise, this message is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. Access to this E-mail by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure or copying of the contents of this E-mail or any action taken (or not taken) in reliance on it is unauthorized and may be unlawful. If you are not an addressee, please inform the sender immediately.
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