From: gts (gts@optexinc.com)
Date: Wed Aug 28 2002 - 01:21:11 MDT
Lee Corbin wrote:
I'm glad to see you back in the discussion, and glad to see that we're
in agreement for the most part.
> Since we *have* found our limbic system to be the seat of our
emotions,
> it is not unreasonable to suppose that since reptiles don't have them,
> they don't have emotions.
Reptiles *do* have a limbic system, and for this reason they are capable
of experiencing emotion. That is the reason I mentioned reptiles in the
first place -- they are an example of an emotional organism that has no
cerebral cortex.
As I wrote to Rafal, if you deny that reptiles experience emotion then
you've never seen an angry alligator!
> The fundamental question that we can ask, and perhaps answer now is,
> In what way would having emotions benefit the survival of reptiles?
Of ants?
Anger and fear both serve very important roles in the survival of genes,
as does the emotional experience of reward. The reasons should be
obvious.
I'm reminded of a documentary on crocodiles that I saw on television
just a day or two ago. A mother crocodile became extremely angry when
her nest of eggs was attacked by small predators. Her anger was very
apparent -- I would not have wanted to be one of those predators!
Now, you or Rafal might argue "But how can you be SURE she was really
angry? You cannot have experienced her subjective experience first
hand."
But that is a fruitless line of discussion. We have no choice but to
interpret the empirical data in the best way we can.
>>If so then why do you suppose [reptiles] bother to hunt and eat?
>They just do. They're just machines.
Reptiles are no more machine than you are. And we know a priori that you
are capable of experiencing the pleasure of reward.
I think this is an important axiom, and given your comments and Rafal's
I think it should be made explicit:
*Every human behavior has a motivation.*
Notwithstanding certain diseases that affect motor skills, humans do not
as a rule act randomly without motivation. The motivation may not always
be conscious but there is nevertheless a motivation for every action.
In addressing the issue of altruism, the question is "What is the
motivation for altruistic behavior?"
As I think we now agree, the answer is to be found ultimately in our
genes. In humans altruistic behavior serves the genes well and so nature
has selected the altruism trait in humans. To have the altruism trait is
to have the neurological hard-wiring necessary for creating the
subjective experience of reward for acting in ways that help others. The
blueprint for that neurological hard-wiring is encoded in our genes.
So then we are motivated to act altruistically because such behavior
activates the circuitry that causes us to experience pleasurable
feelings of reward. It makes us feel good to do good, and so we do good.
The desire to feel good is our only motivation. There is no need for
further explanation.
> My car doesn't want to accelerate when I press the pedal, it just
does.
But we aren't discussing cars. We are discussing humans and other
organisms far more complex than cars. And every human behavior has a
motivation.
-gts
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