From: Randall Randall (randall@randallsquared.com)
Date: Wed Jul 31 2002 - 15:21:20 MDT
Lee Corbin wrote:
> Randall wrote
>>"On August 19, 1934, 95% of the Germans who were registered
>>to vote went to the polls and 90% (38 million) of adult German
>>citizens voted to give Adolf Hitler complete and total authority
>>to rule Germany as he saw fit. Only 4.25 million Germans voted
>>against this transfer of power to a totalitarian regime."
>> -- The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William Shirer
>>
>>Democracies do things like this, sometimes.
>
> Now what in the world are you trying to do??? I said that
> you cannot attribute the 100 million deaths you spoke of
> above to any democratic government. Now you're saying that
> because Germany *ceased* to be democratic and then killed
> millions of people, this can be attributed to a democratic
> government.
Are you saying that because the German people voted for
something you wouldn't have voted for (I assume), that
it wasn't really a democracy when they held the vote and
assented to the horror that followed it? My own feeling
is that a vote for _Mein Kampf_ is not automatically
disqualified as a vote, even if I personally abhor the
vote and its results.
Just to be absolutely clear, I *DO* abhor it.
> I refuse to participate in any further such
> wasted discussions. Please read my sentences to the end
> before starting to reply, and moreover, please don't use
> such incredibly twisted arguments to support what was
> obviously a misstatement on your part.
Well, I didn't think it was a misstatement. You may think
I was *wrong* to state it, but it seems rather odd to claim
that I didn't mean to state it. If that's what you meant,
of course.
>>Would you agree that republics or parliamentary democracies
>>with universal adult suffrage are democratic? Some examples
>>of countries which are democratic and have been for some time:
>>
>>Rwanda since at least 1991
>>Serbia since at least 1992
>>Zimbabwe since at least 1979
>>
>>Clearly democracy, in and of itself, is somewhat overrated.
>
>
> Yes, and so was the democratic socialist nations of Eastern
> Europe. Again you should know damn well what is meant by a
> democratic nation, and the above do not qualify. I'm not
> wasting any further time here, Randall.
You appear to be defining democratic societies as those in
which widespread institutional slaughter doesn't happen. By
that standard, I don't think the results are in yet on whether
the US will be thought to have been democratic by historians.
I understand that you will likely not waste further time on
this argument, but I would welcome continuing discussion on
it, in spite of the wastefulness. :)
-- Randall Randall <randall@randallsquared.com> "Congress keeps telling me I ain't causin' nuthin' but problems and now they're sayin' I'm in trouble with the government; I'm lovin' it" -- Eminem
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