RE: Obedience to Law (was Penology)

From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Wed Jul 31 2002 - 16:27:54 MDT


Randall wrote

> >>With the number of deaths attributed to government in the 20th
> >>century alone standing at well over 100 million people,
> > It's clear I meant democratic societies, and that totally
> > and specifically excludes
> > the 20th century holocausts.
>
> Well, no.
>
> "On August 19, 1934, 95% of the Germans who were registered
> to vote went to the polls and 90% (38 million) of adult German
> citizens voted to give Adolf Hitler complete and total authority
> to rule Germany as he saw fit. Only 4.25 million Germans voted
> against this transfer of power to a totalitarian regime."
> -- The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William Shirer
>
> Democracies do things like this, sometimes.

Now what in the world are you trying to do??? I said that
you cannot attribute the 100 million deaths you spoke of
above to any democratic government. Now you're saying that
because Germany *ceased* to be democratic and then killed
millions of people, this can be attributed to a democratic
government. I refuse to participate in any further such
wasted discussions. Please read my sentences to the end
before starting to reply, and moreover, please don't use
such incredibly twisted arguments to support what was
obviously a misstatement on your part.

> > Yes, we should always "cut to the chase" and advocate the
> > enactment of good laws. Of course. But democracy (or
> > republicanism) also causes power and influence to be spread
> > more evenly, encourages openness, and teaches cooperation.
> > (Think of kids holding elections in schools.) A benign
> > dictatorship somehow guaranteed to produce only laws that
> > were just would still be a worse place.
>
> Would you agree that republics or parliamentary democracies
> with universal adult suffrage are democratic? Some examples
> of countries which are democratic and have been for some time:
>
> Rwanda since at least 1991
> Serbia since at least 1992
> Zimbabwe since at least 1979
>
> Clearly democracy, in and of itself, is somewhat overrated.

Yes, and so was the democratic socialist nations of Eastern
Europe. Again you should know damn well what is meant by a
democratic nation, and the above do not qualify. I'm not
wasting any further time here, Randall.

Lee Corbin



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