From: Randall Randall (randall@randallsquared.com)
Date: Mon Jul 29 2002 - 15:24:55 MDT
Lee Corbin wrote:
> Randall wrote
>
>>Obeying laws which are wrong increases the amount of
>>injustice in the world.
While it doesn't detract from the points you're making, Lee,
I'd like to amend my statement to "Obeying laws which are
wrong may increase the amount of injustice in the world."
The simple act of not breaking a specific bad law may not
affect the rest of the world at all, in many cases.
> Yes, but *who* is to decide what is right and wrong? You
> act like it is *entirely* a matter for the individual.
It is. No one else has direct control over an individual's
actions, so the individual must choose whether to obey or
disobey any given law. Whatever the posturing of politicians
and lawyers, each individual *does* decide which laws to obey:
the only remaining question is whether the individual should
use his or her own reason and experience to guide that choice,
or simply submit.
> It
> seems to me that you misunderstand the role of law in our
> societies,
I do agree that we differ over what the role of law in our
societies is. At least in the US, the role of law appears
to be to pad the pockets of the legislators. That is, each
of them votes for or against laws based on future prospects,
rather than because they have carefully considered the rule
under consideration, and decided that this one is good. If
this had workable feedback which drove the system toward the
enactment of good laws, and toward the repeal of bad ones,
this wouldn't be a problem. It doesn't happen that way, however.
The worst side effect of this process is that there are now
so many laws on the books that any person can be legitimately
incarcerated at any time. While I don't believe that legislators
have had this end in mind, it is no less the case for that.
> and perhaps hold a view that would be workable
> if everyone were as bright, cooperative, and well-educated
> as you are. But since they're not, the meme, "Obey the law,
> right or wrong" must be strengthened in democratic countries,
> not denounced, if you really want the amount of injustice in
> the world to decrease.
How can we obey the law, Lee? You have already conceded that
any given individual cannot even *know* if he or she is lawful
in every way. Given this, strengthening a meme which is
certain to lead to failure in many cases seems willfully
counterproductive. Each and every person in the US is very
likely a criminal, if not a felon, per the laws currently
in effect. Since it is impossible to live one's life in a
way certain not to break the law, why should a person try?
My own solution to this problem is to live my life as I feel
it is best lived, and encourage others to do the same.
> Obeying the law *just* for the sake of obeying the law, is
> a form of cooperation with your neighbors who may disagree
> with laws that you find just dandy. You are defecting, in
> a way, each time you break the law, and we must always avoid
> encouraging people to do so.
I would rather cooperate with my neighbors by not damaging
them or their property, and more explicitly, by specific
agreement. Obeying a law, the formation of which neither
they nor I had any actual control over, seems not to have
anything to do with cooperation with my neighbor. Rather,
it seems primarily useful to those who have more direct
control over the formation of laws like it.
> Democratic countries provide for peaceful petition and free
> speech to endeavor to change laws you find wrong or immoral.
> I will admit that I would attempt to evade silly or really
> stupid laws that were a threat to life or limb, or even my
> entire personal savings, and that I wouldn't feel too guilty
> about it. But I would regret the fact that I had become one
> of "them", a law breaker, and that I had had to thumb my nose
> at law passed by elected representatives. And I would continue
> to proclaim that there is a value in obeying the law just for
> the sake of obedience.
It seems to me that you can safely (so to speak) assume that you,
and everyone you know, are already some of "them".
-- Randall Randall <randall@randallsquared.com> "Congress keeps telling me I ain't causin' nuthin' but problems and now they're sayin' I'm in trouble with the government; I'm lovin' it" -- Eminem
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