From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Sun Jul 07 2002 - 18:19:42 MDT
Spudboy100@aol.com wrote:
> - samantha stated:
>
> <<The notion that our "niceness and openess" was the cause of 9/11
> is at best extremely questionable. Most of the Arab world sees
> bin Laden and gang as murderous, despicable scum pretending
> concern to further their own agenda..>>
>
> No way, most opinion polls view any "Jihadddi" like Osama as a real hero.
Please present the data. I think you are mistaken.
>
> <<But most Arabs in the Middle East, regardless of how conservative,
> liberal, religious, or secular can tell you that the things they are
> troubled and
> angered by concerning America are certainly not us being nice guys..>>
>
> They hate and resent American wealth, apparently. They hate support of
> Israel, but wish Israel destroyed and its non-Islamic population
> massacred. Whatever is wrong with their lives and nations, they blame on
> the USA. Saudi-funded madrasses encourage this.
They hate our unreasoned support of Israel and our lack of
support of Palestine and a Palestinian state. They are
extremely angered by our continued persecution of Iraq. They are
fed up with our manipulation of country after country in the
area - manipulation that we would call terrorism as it has
toppled regimes covertly. They are upset by our arrogance in
doing things like blowing up the pharmaceutical plant in Sudan -
a plant that provided 50% of the needed drugs in the entire
region - on suspicion of creating biological agents and nerve
gas (a suspicion never verified) - without any declaration of
war or attempt to use diplomatic means. They are suspicious of
our refusal to accept custody of bin Laden three times from
Sudan long before 9/11. The list could go on a long while. But
I think it is easy enough to see that "Saudi-funded madrasses"
are not necessary or sufficient to explain their grievancess
with us. Our wealth is also not in the least their chief
grievance. Some of the oil rick countries have more than enough
wealth to make an accusation of financial envy hollow.
>
> <<It was not our openness but frank incompetence or worse that let
> this happen. But we are too busy beating our chests and
> declaiming our "patriotism" to even call for and carry out a
> full investigation of exactly what happened. Those who push
> for it are crucified.>>
>
> It was indeed, and still is incompetence that inhabits the brain-pans of
> those at work in spy agencies and such. Now did W arrange to let
> terrorists strike WTC and the Pentagon so as to forment war against
> Iraq, and thus obtain their oil? Unlikely, because the hallmark of such
> a 'wag the dog' would be served by a massive, and QUICK attack on
> Saddam. This should've been an October 2001 surprise and emphatically
> not an Oct 2002 surprise. We now have had too much time to think and had
> time for "buyers regret". I vote for studpidity and incompetence
> (predateing the W administration) as the villian.
Dunno. If such plotting existed, it would have to be taken
slowly. The attack/intervention in Afghanistan gained us the
means to build the oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian sea
area that we had been attempting to negotiate for a decade.
Some months *before* 9/11 their were statements from US
officials that we were going to intervene in Afghanistan made to
other countries. If looked at that way, 9/11 and the "war on
terror" provides us with a lot of muscle and justification for
pushing into various territories with much higher impunity than
ever before. Meanwhile, at home, government means to scrutinize
and suppress domestic dissent have increased. The security of
the citizenry in their persons and effects is at a low. Fear of
our own government is at a high for many of us. So I am not
convinced there was no plotting involved.
> We challange the Jihaddi notion that the earth is to be ruled by Islamic
> Law, called sharia. We challenge the notion that Allah has ordained the
> Jihaddis as the center of the universe. This is not what I believe, but
> it is what the Jihaddis believe. One scholar believes that have a fair
> chance of toppling the USA too!
>
I am more concerned that our own religious fanatics will turn us
into a theocracy. But I share the concern about the rise of
Muslim society, countries ruled by religious dictates. A lot of
oppression is experienced within and without such unfortunate
states. The ability of humanity to move forward is to impeded.
I have nothing against people practicing whatever religion[s]
or none that they choose. But government forcing of religion
throughout a society is a different matter.
- samantha
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Nov 02 2002 - 09:15:13 MST