From: John Grigg (starman2100@lycos.com)
Date: Tue May 21 2002 - 22:33:51 MDT
With great excitement I tuned in to the Art Bell radio show(listening audience in the many millions!) to hear Dr. Gregory Stock be interviewed for three hours. It turned out to be a very worthwhile experience to say the least.
Art started out by giving a laundry list of Dr. Stock's many achievements. Art emphasized that this was a person who was uniquely qualified to speak on the subject of cloning and biotech. Several times Bell used the term 'heavyhitter!'
Art initially seemed to equate cloning with only the reproductive type. Dr. Stock gently corrected him, and gave a "primer" to his lay audience to explain things. I could tell he was very savvy about dealing with the media.
Stock said the overall underlying mechanisms of aging are not really understood yet. And that it may be quite awhile until the aging process in humans can really be reversed.
He brought up the difficulty in reengineering the genome in adult humans. Stock sees gene mods in specific organs being done first for some time.
Early on religion was brought up. Dr. Stock explained that there was a time when birth control and even vaccinations were considered very unnatural and against the will of God. But in time people realized how important they were, and both society at large and religious organizations adapted to it. He felt theraputic cloning and bioengineering would go through the same thing. I felt it was an excellent point to bring up early in the interview.
When Art brought up how criticism has arisen about the use and disposal of stem cells for research, Stock rebutted that their are REAL people out there with REAL problems who desperately need the help stem cell research could provide. He gave an emotionally strong delivery.
I loved Dr. Stock's line about why some people can afford to be against genetic engineering, "life is beautiful to the healthy and attractive, but not always to nature's failed experiments!" They were in some ways callous words, but with a lot of truth to them.
Art's response was that twenty percent of the emails he was getting actually claimed clones would not have souls! Bell playfully said when the clone appears on tv it sure better not have a blank stare! lol
The heated topic of insurance companies poking their nose in personal genome records was discussed. We all know the possible dark possibilities there... And as Stock shared, with the price of gene chips dropping precipitously, these matters will become more and more important.
Dr. Stock saw the scenario where people have themselves privately screened and then buy up all the insurance they can before the any possible bad news about their genome leaks out. The other side to it he felt would be companies saying we will insure no one until they allow us to pour over their genome!
Since everyone will to an extent have chinks in their "genomic armor," he believes this may lead to egalitarianism. Maybe?? lol
Dr. Stock will be holding the Storefront Genome Conference to discuss these very issues. If I recall correctly it will be held at UCLA.
His comment, "there are differences in individuals and in populations so we must get used to it" really shocked me. I could imagine some people taking offense at him including entire populations into his statement!
Art brought up the popular notion that the wealthy will use genetic engineering to create an even greater gulf between rich and poor. Stock disagreed with this and felt the rich were actually allowing themselves to be made into guinea pigs for the benefit of science! He also briefly touched on how it would be more a "generational thing" then a "rich vrs. poor" thing. I could imagine the wealthy feeling very estranged with their transhuman children!
Dr. Stock felt the real gulf would be about philosophy and religion among nations. He felt Christian nations would be at a distinct disadvantage if they allow domestic religious arguments to hamstring biotech research. Nations like China with a very different religious/philosophical outlook will not be hampered by such fears and concerns, so they will in time greatly outstrip us.
I could tell Dr. Stock is to an extent quite the patriot. He talked of the American character or 'constitution' and how it is in our very nature to want to strive, explore and successfully compete. "Americans will want to shape the future and not watch others do so without them."
Even GE crops were discussed. This important subject was glossed over, but Stock did say China has greatly increased their yields by using this technology. And since they are barrelling ahead in this area, we had better learn more.
Dr. Stock did seem to have a competitive/nationalistic streak in him. Or maybe he was just playing up to middle america, I don't know.
"We are at a unique point of history and we must not let it slip by us." Art continued to bring up how there were sure to be screwups as the research continued. Dr. Stock mentioned in reply the U.S. space program and how there were casualties to achieve our goals of space exploration! He felt this would be no different.
Of matters relating to the singularity, Dr. Stock said the evolution and transformation of humanity is happening at astounding speed. And within 5-10 generations we will be very changed. He does see things taking more time to take off then many on the extro list.
Ray Kurzweil was even mentioned! lol Dr. Stock said in almost a derisive tone that he could not imagine Kurzweil's claim from a discussion coming true that within the next twenty years we will see surgical implants to enhance the capabilities of the human brain. Stock believes we will get the impressive enhancements we need/want from noninvasive technologies. Time for Ray Kurzweil to go on the Art Bell show! : )
Dr. Stock very strongly felt it is a case of government self-deceit if they believe they can have rules and committees to really control genetic engineering. It will either happen here, or be driven underground or to other nations.
He felt the two big dangers involving genetic engineering are government interferance and/or a general pullback. Dr. Stock sees this technology leading to conflict potentially worse then what even the abortion issue has so far engendered.
Dr. Stock emphasized he wants society to have a chance to learn about and discuss these technologies. And that is what he is trying hard to do.
He said he has faith that the world our children and grandchildren will inherit will be wise in using these technologies. BUT, Dr. Stock is not sure if he wants to live in the wonderful world he yearns for! LOL!
The interview ended with Art Bell saying, "Doctor, you are an optimist!"
best wishes to all,
John
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