From: Anne Marie Tobias (atobias@interwoven.com)
Date: Wed Jun 06 2001 - 00:23:27 MDT
Samantha Atkins wrote:
> Anne Marie Tobias wrote:
> >
> > Howdy all,
>
> > > Uh, because the technology is not yet mature and power efficient
> > > and scalable enough?
> >
> > Actually, the technology is fine... from little I've been able to gleen,
> >
> > it's primarily a production problem... and getting appropriate funding.
> > The question I have is... why can't they get funding? The science is
> > solid, and the benefit clear? Very strange...
> >
>
> The case obviously does not impress the money sources yet. No
> need for international conspiracies to "explain" it.
Maturity or efficacy of a technology has never been the key factor
in it's adoption... in most cases, it's more likely somebody has a
lock on the niche and spends a lot of money to make sure it stays
that way. I'm not saying it's been round filed by evil suits... I just
wouldn't be at all surprised.
> > > > Why did the energy crisis suddenly blossom, when
> > > > fossil fuels strongest advocate entered the white house? Why
> > >
> > > Any fool with a calculator and basic math could see California
> > > was in for energy chaos at some point. You can't blame
> > > everything on da Bush.
> >
> > What I can blame on GW is change of climate. While The House
> > that Bill Built was making the rules, California could hull brech as
> > often as it wanted, and as long as the economic engine was still
> > printing fresh money, Bill would be happy to run interference. The
> > minute that GW came into office, the contaiment field was turned
> > off and California experienced the sudden vacuum of space. Talk
> > about the final frontier!!! Only what got sucked out was out state
> > wealth... we spaced our money!
> >
>
> Yeah, wasn't it wonderful when the Fed was printing a lot of
> fresh money and the stock market bubble was getting more and
> mroe inflated? What a high! The KA-BOOM. Bubble go POP. Now
> we cry for Presistent DADDY to bring back our fun.
Again... too many coincidences... could be statistical clustering, but I
just can't buy that. Recent decades hint at just too much manipulation
"On ALL SIDES". I personally believe that Clinton levitated the bubble
to maintain his popularity (how else was going to stay out of jail), and
GW popped it, he had a completely different game plan, not to mention
he spent his first week trying his best to erase every sign that Clinton
ever existed.
> > > > As long as there is more profit in being stupid, why would'nt
> > > > you ever expect the people in power to do all they can to kill
> > > > the smart. It's just good business.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Uh, because you live in this world and in this world the
> > > relative wealth and well-being of the economy and others does
> > > have a direct impact on your own wealth and well-being? Killing
> > > the smart is neither smart, profitable or "good business".
> > >
> > > - samantha
> >
> > In this world... we have given up the sanity of a planned future, for
> > the need to appease the quarterly beast. The only sound one here's
>
> "Planned future"??? Like the USSR used to try to do? Are you
> sure you live on this earth? Planned by whom? No State, no
> group of geniuses can plan out an economic future and no amount
> of dictatorial power can force reality to conform to any such
> Plan. Didn't the collapse of such "planned" economies teach us
> anything?
Oh hell... the USSR couldn't could plan regular bowel movements. It
started out as Communism, slipped into dictatorship, and ultimately
became a the russian mofia's empty cupboard... talk about a Chinese
fire drill... I can say that... I'm half Chinese :-)
Singapore is a planned economy... also a dictatorship, but at least a
benevolent one. No, I was thinking more along the lines of some
real vision... folks with some panash and flair for designing futures.
Starting with something that honor humanity at the level of individual
and works it' way all the way up to society... Something elegant.
> Bussiness is short term focused in large measure because
> government has destroyed any possibility of longer term focus.
> Its rules shift and morph even faster than the technological
> landscape. Its favor and removal of favor are a delirious
> tyrant wrecking havoc in every boardroom and in every
> individual's economic life.
That's not true... the shift from long term to short term was a direct
product of business moving from private ownership to corporate
ownership. I won't argue that government makes a bad situation
of what's already a mess... but the shift to corporation has caused
some truly amazing and equally horific changes in American and
now world business.
> No, it is not more of that kind of "planned future" that we
> need.
I wasn't thinking of one person planning everybody elses future, I
was more thinking of training a generation of chidren to think in
terms of personal responsibility, and empowered self expression,
and seeing what kind of futures they might be inspired to cause.
I mean if we can teach a generation of kids to eb mindless video
drones and good consumers... surely we must be able to do this
instead.
> > is the mantra quarterly profits. There is no room for subtlety, no
> > time for longterm planning, there is no justification for moral debate,
> > and pandering to philosophic musing is just not going to feed the
> > bulldog... what you do is you make a profit this quarter... and if you
> > want to stay the CEO, and keep getting those 7 digit per anum, pay
> > checks you keep doing whatever it is that you're told to do... That
> > profit this quarter demands that you do.
>
> Do you think this environment just fell out of the sky? Do you
> think having government take over is any sort of solution?
Again, I'm talking about something outside government... Government
and business as we now have it are broken, and I fear that the very
forces that we are interested in promoting are going to make things
all the worse.
> > If 2,000 Indians die in Bhopal, because you cut corners... tough
> > noogies, if you clear cut the entire freaking state of Washington, too
> > bad so sad... if you have to lock 10 year old girls in labor camp
> > conditions to work for 16 hours a day for enough rice to feed a
> > chipmunk, and all 110 of them burn to death because nobody gave
> > someone a key to let them out in case of fire... hey it was a glitch a
> > bad business decision...
> >
>
> Here we go we the string of ills that supposedly justify utterly
> dumping on business and playing up the role of government
> planning as the only enlightened solution. That is truly sad.
> And despicable in light of the many tens of millions of people
> slaughtered by the acceptance of such reasoning.
No the point I was making wasn't that government was going to
give us anything... it's part of the problem... I'm pointing at a
totally different game. Beginning to look at what it would actually
take to build a new kind of human future. One that leaves people
touched, moved, and ongoingly inspired to be their best. A place
that let's people be... supports their growth, and naturally spins
of new communities and affiliations committed to making real
differences in chosen fields. Government and business could be
transmuted in such a space "Business as trusted partner in
unfolding the future"... "Government, of dedicated public servants,
aspiring to leave a legacy of integrity and compassion, being the
cause of bold growth"... a social revolution that has no enemies,
make nobody wrong, invites all people to play, and infects them
with a taste of something better... more human than the life they
now lead... what do you think?
> > By the way... that last one... sounds like China huh... it was... it's
> > also Los Angeles... in the clothing district. Scary... really...
> >
>
> A missing key doesn't exactly compare to what China and Russia
> did with their planned economies and the millions killed not be
> a glitch but on purpose for the service of the Plan.
Stalin was a monster... he murdered more people than Hitler and
Mussolini combined. I'm not talking about big "M" monsters. I'm
talking about the littke "M" monsters... the people who put a dime
above a human life, and think existence is designed to fulfill their
desires at cost of others. I don't anybody who tries to pave his
way through life with the bones of those he either through acts of
commission or ommission..
> > Until we begin to leave behind concepts that have been drug with
> > us for the last ten millenium, or longer, that let us treat one another
> > as things and not people... that make power and profit more
> > important that the future of humanity in general and people in
> > specific, and until we become completely clear that advances in
>
> Freedom and free markets are not an old concept. They are
> relatively new and largely not understood. They are one
> interpretation of what it really means to be truly for and of
> the people.
But ideas of trade and fairness go all the back to a primate ancestors.
the foundations of business are primate stuff. We need to rise above
the belief the people can and should use and misuse other people.
> > technology will soon amplify even small slides in morality into
> > gross misconducts compromising large populations... until we
> > are very clear about that as a society, we are going to have ever
> > greater trouble with stupidity calling the day.
> >
>
> Agreed. But the abrogation of human rights because we don't
> understand their basis or because too many of us consider them
> only as fueling "greed" will lead straight to a global
> dictatorship when modern and coming technology is added. A
> dictatorship where your ever movement and every word is
> monitored or able to be monitored at any time. In such a world
> we must have very strong understanding of and respect for
> individual rights of self-determination. We must understand
> that we cannot win by over-control no matter how lofty our
> intentions and how vaunted our intellect.
>
> - samantha
We are already there... the network to monitor you 24/7 exists.
The liklihood that there is nobody at the helm yet, isn't because
there are interested parties.
I agree that freedom is essential. I add though that freedom must
be tempered with social conscience, and personal responsibility,
for without these, freedom is merely an excuse to shit on the
world... and skate away from the consequeces of your actions.
Our sense of compassion, and accountability must in lock step
match our need to be free to be. Only through holding others
as valuable, and worthwhile simply by being, will be begin to
unlock our own greater possiblity.
Marie
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