summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/fd/ba19f7b4f07f2382f85bf1d44753c2dc4023cc
blob: 02fb947a79fd214aa8f3aaca89b2be106b04c2b0 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
Return-Path: <jl2012@xbt.hk>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 994F7166F
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Sat,  3 Oct 2015 18:49:22 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from s47.web-hosting.com (s47.web-hosting.com [199.188.200.16])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 131378C
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Sat,  3 Oct 2015 18:49:21 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost ([::1]:34716 helo=server47.web-hosting.com)
	by server47.web-hosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.85)
	(envelope-from <jl2012@xbt.hk>)
	id 1ZiRs0-0013p1-Ne; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:49:20 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:49:20 -0400
From: jl2012@xbt.hk
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
In-Reply-To: <20151003143056.GA27942@muck>
References: <20151003143056.GA27942@muck>
Message-ID: <e7b394187fd96bd77a1c49f7c9b7a9b2@xbt.hk>
X-Sender: jl2012@xbt.hk
User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.5
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
	please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server47.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - xbt.hk
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server47.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id:
	jl2012@xbt.hk
X-Source: 
X-Source-Args: 
X-Source-Dir: 
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY - We need more usecases to
 motivate the change
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 18:49:22 -0000

BIP68 allows per-input locktime, though I don't know how this could be 
useful.

BIP68 and BIP112 are mostly ready. If we try to reimplement 
relative-locktime without using nSequence, we may need to wait for 
another year for deployment.

A compromise is to make BIP68 optional, indicated by a bit in tx 
nVersion, as I suggested earlier (1). This will allow deploying 
relative-locktime without further delay while not permanently limiting 
future upgrades.

(1) 
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010043.html

Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-10-03 10:30 寫到:
> BIP68 and BIP112 collectively define the CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY semantics,
> which can be summarized conceptually as a relative CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY.
> However, CSV does define behavior for the previously undefined 
> nSequence
> field, which is the only "free-form" field we currently have in the
> transaction serialization format that can be used for future upgrades -
> we should justify this new behavior carefully as it limits our options
> in the future. Adding new fields to the serialization format is very
> difficult, due to the very broad system-wide impact of the hard-fork
> required to do so.
> 
> So we need to make the case for two main things:
> 
> 1) We have applications that need a relative (instead of absolute CLTV)
> 
> 2) Additionally to RCLTV, we need to implement this via nSequence
> 
> To show we need RCLTV BIP112 provides the example "Escrow with 
> Timeout",
> which is a need that was brought up by GreenAddress, among others; I
> don't think we have an issue there, though getting more examples would
> be a good thing. (the CLTV BIP describes seven use cases, and one
> additional future use-case)
> 
> However I don't think we've done a good job showing why we need to
> implement this feature via nSequence. BIP68 describes the new nSequence
> semantics, and gives the rational for them as being a
> "Consensus-enforced tx replacement" mechanism, with a bidirectional
> payment channel as an example of this in action. However, the
> bidirectional payment channel concept itself can be easily implemented
> with CLTV alone. There is a small drawback in that the initial
> transaction could be delayed, reducing the overall time the channel
> exists, but the protocol already assumes that transactions can be
> reliably confirmed within a day - significantly less than the proposed
> 30 days duration of the channel. That example alone I don't think
> justifies a fairly complex soft-fork that limits future upgrades; we
> need more justification.
> 
> So, what else can the community come up with? nSequence itself exists
> because of a failed feature that turned out to not work as intended;
> it'd be a shame to make that kind of mistake again, so let's get our
> semantics and use-cases in the BIPs and documented before we deploy.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev