1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
|
Delivery-date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 06:54:03 -0700
Received: from mail-qt1-f188.google.com ([209.85.160.188])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBDRYHVHZTUGRB36Z63AQMGQESKXILBA@googlegroups.com>)
id 1uM5c2-0002Uc-EV
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2025 06:54:03 -0700
Received: by mail-qt1-f188.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4a461632999sf38897981cf.1
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Mon, 02 Jun 2025 06:54:02 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1748872436; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=fztNUCPuracQJtjha3g90eQk7tPUoOPQgW2jd2la6CGcn3eWcKyO4zGgNv2K4YBMX3
2lvPEMTPn2d5LD0GJ3Z2J3ABsRe4SRXEvlO7a5gHfoJ+xYTEoyb7tJVJhKlzVNzQJ3h5
JNjDs7ooZtbYyuMyoxOKr7QxKTzLKIzlvz8Y5UW926uQZrjOuW1h45tL71EtsMu7STWx
bbONNzaQVSefWLdtKW3LpQC9PnLr2e9UpUa4GS+WfEYegNN+zhajOEwm7t7Cy4Yonf5A
0WWVQFrjz8VODzj3oCLqwNulRsguzK+7R9NH4cLiLTnwoAoVLoObUq4h6gys4Qj1vMj4
nzwQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition
:mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date
:feedback-id:sender:dkim-signature;
bh=aiM7RxGKg+RAPdIgxjlSRZXWSNxa3aGzwKvvC1zp7rM=;
fh=T/ZYsAJ0CNeF5+d4tedNKFDhNCWrVFhZDiW+aAoJras=;
b=jsLkxwYUnT3CY5vB16PBEUXFEcKaSP5+DEzsAfHDdBU+sxKGjkw88uZpf4R0KE1NgA
dGSTs45dv0M1EEFO+J94g3CfSD3+vfBz22LslhB44SPimBUAl0G8gaUxBLtpLZ4/NTjX
dMnCVm611w04pR7u6UMMGX/fZ7D4s9MS8XOAAGuz7PPvPPPGOKebMok/WPnFsc/AGpsG
Zi62ohbBaGJvtZ93QoyK30hW2L84ih8K7SCmESqENvVRY1rFeSET3uwk+jp7xVxbteet
k/NVKciE+fQxlJMQW+I2iD8FKSGnDiWX7EEq58DmZaVutqv/7PLf1vpI90BOKj8MA/BG
kivQ==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=XnhnkjKa;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 202.12.124.146 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1748872436; x=1749477236; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:sender
:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=aiM7RxGKg+RAPdIgxjlSRZXWSNxa3aGzwKvvC1zp7rM=;
b=veKE+3O1QqzhPmJi+wACDFn89OkBww5AP4A9C0OyqZZcGVxx+3MSFo+PvD8aQMiJGt
yJCLxZMTUBLX1yOPSRcMhna6dqEt16tvoxkdroAqS7MVg+PN+Pwc+oorJ4l3WSE3Nvtb
CpeJ3jWs9gLMbKfKiyHFvOrKgTGasBwBsn7+8wJoa8DfgleYX9hStsHCyb3zp//es468
QkR1JNXNdxuLiB3OFB8lYks8pkDJslqIxlZL8qHfGApwHC/VtDL7dDUtlNMk5EQAspkQ
18ZxeH2wFO+JOOMAzAtboNsQuoBf4sZX2O+y1kt3F8xtV98Ho+x8z76+gANMmJew/cDi
8ErA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1748872436; x=1749477236;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id
:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date
:message-id:reply-to;
bh=aiM7RxGKg+RAPdIgxjlSRZXWSNxa3aGzwKvvC1zp7rM=;
b=CTQqpQIAm0UvVCZBxE99x/dPBYAYMEXE7GUzb7CsAXpevZ7Bi3KiIEhdR3wTd5Kwka
gS65cHK88/VK7tFAh54Uzs6dMcv8UEKW7YOlINhsG0forz5JsevzoG0HIplIaUxoEri2
q+6sl2nf1FP0CgrqvjGN6NYYug7sB7sOkmDGb2Tc3XbfG/Dkj661zkVRNa8tW0EJ3uSc
P9Rfm/3vulHePytFKiTOLLbnRjLfsw14hNpijurUq4ZeXymcXagTnxvQPlMQ9hmSTRO0
yxpkXJLNjAejT+sqgUwhLWqbHw205wxlwNXf9xmQ0y4Xp7OiEWxkfwoTYSj+SvQHPmN3
xiww==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWSiyU3e2uN7LmsPDBApQZ97Gr/mDvCXa7CxVfCsTwt3Fa/pf4gH03KVjt5pTcx4yBR8X4kCZzgh5Gm@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx8VovJA6u/vG4nLvj9pClitnmXNMSRb/LKKUcbnvUj6jwzCxeb
UzY0oFEuf8Meig7cKCuZS9FxA//gDf0tnlMig3YseF4RgWf6iSxBcE7G
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFp2iEsD4g37PVq85Xk6SHQNl/WTQULgAZmoFnmzDKQJ2pVd/HTioQIyvwAifT7XGSLXC3ZKg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1c0e:b0:494:b3eb:a4b9 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4a4400ef55bmr219448751cf.51.1748872435649;
Mon, 02 Jun 2025 06:53:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AZMbMZfxd9yAt4GfR3TcB4pl5Dc1MsszE7cKNuv9NkV6KOaBhQ==
Received: by 2002:ac8:688b:0:b0:4a4:30ed:7f28 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4a4322d2fa2ls83050551cf.0.-pod-prod-02-us;
Mon, 02 Jun 2025 06:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4108:b0:7c9:55b2:c3a with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d0a1f912c6mr1902976985a.11.1748872431447;
Mon, 02 Jun 2025 06:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:620a:11af:b0:7c5:495f:5415 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d0a1fed251ms85a;
Mon, 2 Jun 2025 04:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:4d88:b0:4a3:530b:2880 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4a44004322amr239349641cf.14.1748863480366;
Mon, 02 Jun 2025 04:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1748863480; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=WcE79QKPOfNP8fYnk9Zt+FC/Inpp8LBgKHCYnGB9UDY1HYfnbLf2RHhmqQtEn7xDmg
QkpTTgs/Q2vSmGJIeAMFIKfDUULF8nIXAymWKs4yPodxfoek8A3b/xiHyLoW+L58S1j3
c0KvlzG/FQoY+glD/spIm7yVcC65RW51VHDMLLLuvwk2dFa0iwiSKW2GCUDQQ6F5N2ap
PGwq9AtmtLEAxfkjYVm/ibnXefQiATCySwgylyySMW59ZcmeH6H1rCE6I8hVTcZxaK2a
07Wmmcm8jjWVr1IdegCeKiWr3X4M2QLA6rSkvJEPxoC6sEkCvBofeG3JU615gE6bN7OL
qj3A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id
:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:dkim-signature;
bh=pbNJlAX9yY30IBy26LjfreIGzSidWI1bSmu09ZW1yKE=;
fh=rl4+jzoCLuJam/TauP68uwdod+CpSxy1fqvE5aWyQWI=;
b=OGIZz5iVLq3gskqkCPLig57Rg9wF7t10k4JI9TvK7bE5WJIPTowl1jvW7NZgWcQ+B/
2H/2Uv6WsD+t6E4bxxzwZdrxTVz7XMDPu2vQ9Hfy+nK/0WGNKZj+O1TQ/bpiFQ+i5D6Q
Leee+UYE25dJ0rG5zT7c2HkJNceehB/qFNnpyncjf8YXNmFW0bLU4kfwCwrG81fdGQtm
4U8KTtZHIc6eZTdNbgCqSPgXzC9el/jbveSSVGs6Elww4aI27CKPxqT9lDUs2D6yljgA
MallIkzw6OgYYHR8P1vQ68mo8j4LYo0ckrTV5XPjqvpgk370h3CAvOThT1l5FYC7TADN
SUuQ==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=XnhnkjKa;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 202.12.124.146 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Received: from fout-b3-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-b3-smtp.messagingengine.com. [202.12.124.146])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d75a77b69052e-4a435600773si3943131cf.0.2025.06.02.04.24.40
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Mon, 02 Jun 2025 04:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 202.12.124.146 as permitted sender) client-ip=202.12.124.146;
Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.phl.internal [10.202.2.46])
by mailfout.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BE2114018C;
Mon, 2 Jun 2025 07:24:39 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163])
by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 02 Jun 2025 07:24:39 -0400
X-ME-Sender: <xms:94k9aGAlI1Ikn6uqf_CpYKkpMx2KaVgmY58_Dz5CslXZFQM_7P-QoA>
<xme:94k9aAhGAYltmrd4r5TzjK8XtK7pkBJqswGsTP4I-zLPgYQSf0xpZ5xJrLpJuGGZ7
2yNo81Ymxe779I3RSA>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:94k9aJlZNvF4HyipjOBVQIRjT-G_9q2WVEBnFwduko0SFNZZ8B5xs2FgOtHT>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtddtgdefjeehgeculddtuddrgeefvddrtd
dtmdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggft
fghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftd
dtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpeffhffvvefukfhf
gggtuggjsehgtderredttddvnecuhfhrohhmpefrvghtvghrucfvohguugcuoehpvghtvg
esphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepledvleelffdtudek
udffjefgfeejueehieelfedtgfetudetgeegveeutefhjedtnecuffhomhgrihhnpehpvg
htvghrthhouggurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehm
rghilhhfrhhomhepphgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgpdhnsggprhgtphhtth
hopedvpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopehkleekkhhurhiisehgmhgr
ihhlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouh
hpshdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:94k9aEwIkxR0_ca5n4717QIYdgutcKg0Vtt1AXqrcW-16rhwCfKc5w>
<xmx:94k9aLSUYqZMi8Hif5Kc6nakPVy1PHnApVnLU5y3nGbFdgoykO2V6A>
<xmx:94k9aPakaRip5oZ0VOtC1R5O4rBMjS0Mv_SJblnKU5hUG8bCbKNLFQ>
<xmx:94k9aETSlShk4kUHfcaqhoEgrUIYjFP3IGpKXIXgdmeyb2NAUCBMFw>
<xmx:94k9aEsLtKy0dV2XJCGn-5POoCOdRXpc2DFCFXvU7j52-4y5Kdd10vr0>
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon,
2 Jun 2025 07:24:39 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 10C039FCCF; Mon, 2 Jun 2025 11:24:36 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2025 11:24:36 +0000
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Jonathan Voss <k98kurz@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Post-Quantum commit / reveal Fawkescoin variant as a
soft fork
Message-ID: <aD2J9HNJUqaod0n2@petertodd.org>
References: <cc2f8908-f6fa-45aa-93d7-6f926f9ba627n@googlegroups.com>
<CAFC_Vt6gqV-8aoTKt2it1p9LAnvaADueHnC1cM6LQojZf6fjCw@mail.gmail.com>
<c8bbcbbb-036b-4e72-9bb5-4490e43dda21n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jRelUVZfRWb3OHSi"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <c8bbcbbb-036b-4e72-9bb5-4490e43dda21n@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=XnhnkjKa; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 202.12.124.146 as
permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/)
--jRelUVZfRWb3OHSi
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
On Fri, May 30, 2025 at 03:00:41PM -0700, Jonathan Voss wrote:
> As far as I can tell, the main flaw in commit/reveal protocols is in the
> commit phase: if revealing a commitment with N confirmations is required to
> spend bitcoins, then, without spending any bitcoins, how do you get the
> commitment into the blockchain in the first place? Maybe I am just
> misunderstanding this. If so, then a commit/reveal scheme may be a workable
> solution.
You can always purchase new BTC to perform the commitment.
Indeed, this problem is often seen in alt-coins where fees must be paid in a
native asset, while users are trying to send some kind of tokenized asset like
a USD token. You can have funds that you can't move because you don't have the
correct asset. While annoying, this isn't a fatal problem.
--
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aD2J9HNJUqaod0n2%40petertodd.org.
--jRelUVZfRWb3OHSi
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=W8QP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--jRelUVZfRWb3OHSi--
|