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From: Eric Martindale <eric@ericmartindale.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 22:02:42 -0400
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To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Cc: Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST
 Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
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Bitcoin's security is derived from the energy consumption of mining, so
reducing the overall expenditure would be an objective decrease in
resilience.  As a miner, your efficiency at converting energy into
hashpower is the driving factor in your profitability, so this and any
other future attempts to decrease the cost of attacking Bitcoin receives a
hard NACK from me.

If you're concerned about missing out on the subsidy or fee revenue, grab
any number of the sub-500mSAT USB miners and get access to cheap power.

Sincerely,

Eric Martindale, relentless maker.
Founder & CEO, Fabric, Inc. <https://fabric.fm>
+1 (919) 374-2020


On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 9:41 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Good Afternoon,
>
> It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost
> of mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it
> is considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to
> mine but, since mining requires specific hardware and energy requirements
> it is already a form of censorship where most on the planet except for the
> top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford to mine. Without affecting the
> current algorithm, I have previously begun to explore the process by which
> mining can be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses
> able to mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist
> to pay the miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if
> there are some ways that only a subset of miners can produce valid blocks
> for any given period, say for 12 months with four groups starting three
> months apart to transition, and maybe limit mining to 50 people per
> continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. Possibly this requires a
> consortium to oversee the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle
> themselves, and would do better to handle than to wait for government
> intervention as we have seen previously in China where power was too cheap
> Bitcoin was banned entirely.
>
> KING JAMES HRMH
> Great British Empire
>
> Regards,
> The Australian
> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
> MR. Damian A. James Williamson
> Wills
>
> et al.
>
>
> Willtech
> www.willtech.com.au
> www.go-overt.com
> and other projects
>
> earn.com/willtech
> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson
>
>
> m. 0487135719
> f. +61261470192
>
>
> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this
> email if misdelivered.
> ------------------------------
> *From:* bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on
> behalf of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM
> *To:* Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>
> *Cc:* Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST
> Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
>
> Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate that my
> cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also tackles
> problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the BTC
> network could be vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do
> want to do this BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to
> this manner and can provide useful insight to the community. If things such
> as bigger block height have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very
> least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at
> least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just
> let me know on the preferred format?
>
> Best regards, Andrew
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation <
> loneroassociation@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to
> renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the
> most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness
> of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki
> format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal?
>
> Best regards, Andrew
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Ryan and Andrew,
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>
>   https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
>     "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
>     on | 04 Aug 2015
>
>
> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market
> will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.  It does not
> prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.
>
> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and
> that we should move to other resources.  I would argue that the negative
> externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the
> point is likely moot.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

--000000000000d94fce05bd89a580
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Bitcoin&#39;s security is derived from the energy consumpt=
ion of mining, so reducing the overall expenditure would be an objective de=
crease in resilience.=C2=A0 As a miner, your efficiency at converting energ=
y into hashpower is the driving factor in your profitability, so this and a=
ny other future attempts to decrease the cost of attacking Bitcoin receives=
 a hard NACK from me.<br><br>If you&#39;re concerned about missing out on t=
he subsidy=C2=A0or fee revenue, grab any number of the sub-500mSAT USB mine=
rs and get access to cheap power.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br clear=3D"all"><d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signa=
ture"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,=
33);font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:13px;line-height:19.5px">Eric Martindale, relentless maker.</div><div =
style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helveti=
ca,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19.5px">Founder &amp; CEO, <=
a href=3D"https://fabric.fm" target=3D"_blank">Fabric, Inc.</a></div><div s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetic=
a,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19.5px">+1 (919) 374-2020</di=
v></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 9:41 AM LORD HI=
S EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<span style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal=
;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Good Afternoon,</span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost o=
f mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it i=
s considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mine=
 but, since mining requires specific
 hardware and energy requirements it is already a form of censorship where =
most on the planet except for the top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford =
to mine. Without affecting the current algorithm, I have previously begun t=
o explore the process by which mining
 can be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to =
mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay th=
e miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there ar=
e some ways that only a subset of
 miners can produce valid blocks for any given period, say for 12 months wi=
th four groups starting three months apart to transition, and maybe limit m=
ining to 50 people per continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. P=
ossibly this requires a consortium
 to oversee the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, =
and would do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as w=
e have seen previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banne=
d entirely.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
KING JAMES HRMH</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Great British Empire</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
The Australian</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; HMRH)</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British Empire</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
MR. Damian A. James Williamson</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Wills</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
et al.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Willtech</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au" style=3D"color:rgb(27,106,203)" targ=
et=3D"_blank">www.willtech.com.au</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com" style=3D"color:rgb(27,106,203)" target=
=3D"_blank">www.go-overt.com</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
and other projects</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://earn.com/willtech" target=3D"_blank">earn.com/willtech</a=
></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson" target=3D"_blank">linke=
din.com/in/damianwilliamson</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
m. 0487135719</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
f. +61261470192</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<span style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal=
;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">This email does not con=
stitute a general advice.
 Please disregard this email if misdelivered.</span>
<div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-5101036930417261306divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>Fro=
m:</b> bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfou=
ndation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.or=
g</a>&gt; on behalf of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Devrandom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c1.devrandom@niftybox.net" targe=
t=3D"_blank">c1.devrandom@niftybox.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bitcoin Protocol Discussion &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundatio=
n.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST =
Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate th=
at my cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also t=
ackles problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the B=
TC network could be vulnerable to
 in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this BIP because it=
 tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and can provide usefu=
l insight to the community. If things such as bigger block height have been=
 proposed as hard forks, I feel
 at the very least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptogra=
phy does at least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my=
 BIP, just let me know on the preferred format?
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loneroassociation@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">loneroassociatio=
n@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi, this isn&#39;t about the energy efficient argument in=
 regards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to=
 get the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbit=
rariness of it, but do want to still propose
 a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as=
 my proposal?
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:c1.devrandom@niftybox.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">c1.devr=
andom@niftybox.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hi Ryan and Andrew,<br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat=
ion.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on | 04 Aug 2015<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining mar=
ket will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.=C2=A0 It does=
 not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities an=
d that we should move to other resources.=C2=A0 I would argue that the nega=
tive externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so =
the point is likely moot.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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