summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/f0/48bf69d1e09b05fb22dcc2d75e57f95e7292cd
blob: 406abb4eeabd8df0537e42dbe2b04b2466e8abe4 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <mh.in.england@gmail.com>) id 1WcvcT-0006Bl-KP
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:45:41 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
	designates 209.85.219.42 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=209.85.219.42; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com;
	helo=mail-oa0-f42.google.com; 
Received: from mail-oa0-f42.google.com ([209.85.219.42])
	by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76) id 1WcvcR-0005Nh-T0
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:45:41 +0000
Received: by mail-oa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i4so874989oah.29
	for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
	Wed, 23 Apr 2014 04:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.60.176.9 with SMTP id ce9mr7063990oec.55.1398253534583; Wed,
	23 Apr 2014 04:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com
Received: by 10.76.96.180 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 04:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <201404231239.20202.andyparkins@gmail.com>
References: <CANEZrP0szimdFSk23aMfO8p2Xtgfbm6kZ=x3rmdPDFUD73xHMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<201404231057.54387.andyparkins@gmail.com>
	<CANEZrP0EYLjkrLnzqSbdTVaTZ_gSnmoOpByexgO9=wPm9Pk_Ng@mail.gmail.com>
	<201404231239.20202.andyparkins@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:45:34 +0200
X-Google-Sender-Auth: FCtStI4c3BN3aHJh6o1N8DfYKkU
Message-ID: <CANEZrP3w0XY_2bUG-+L57gMU2psicWu5dUv3O1S7hgaq_+8Xqg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
To: Andy Parkins <andyparkins@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0118226c3c232704f7b445f5
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
	-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
	sender-domain
	0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
	(mh.in.england[at]gmail.com)
	-0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
	1.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
	not necessarily valid
	-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1WcvcR-0005Nh-T0
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage
	Finney attacks
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:45:41 -0000

--089e0118226c3c232704f7b445f5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

>
> You're still being unfair to bitcoin.  Not everyone who uses bitcoins will
> be dishonest.  The dishonest 5% hashing power is not going to be used in
> 100% of any given merchants transactions.
>

OK, sure, let's say most Bitcoin users will be honest (we hope). But
unfortunately in a situation where fraud is possible users wouldn't
necessarily distribute evenly over transactions.

Back when I worked on Gmail, we did a little study where we selected a
random subset of email accounts from Nigeria and waited to see if they
received abuse reports, showed up on dating site blacklists etc. It turned
out about 2/3rds of them did. This obviously doesn't imply that 2/3rds of
all Nigerians are scammers, but unfortunately the few that are are
responsible for a disproportionate number of account creations.

If a merchant is selling something of value repeatedly, then a small number
of scammers can go back and try their luck over and over. I'm not sure how
many trades fall into such an exploitable category, though.

Also, there's the philosophical question of how honest people really are
when there's no consequences to their actions. For instance, if most people
were honest, then piracy would be not a big problem. But game studios that
have cracked DRM quite often report piracy rates of 95%, i.e. for every 5
sales they make, they get 100 people playing on their servers - the vast
majority of their users are not honest.

--089e0118226c3c232704f7b445f5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"">You&#39;re still being unfair to=
 bitcoin. =C2=A0Not everyone who uses bitcoins will<br>
</div>
be dishonest. =C2=A0The dishonest 5% hashing power is not going to be used =
in<br>
100% of any given merchants transactions.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv>OK, sure, let&#39;s say most Bitcoin users will be honest (we hope). But=
 unfortunately in a situation where fraud is possible users wouldn&#39;t ne=
cessarily distribute evenly over transactions.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Back when I worked on Gmail, we did a little study wher=
e we selected a random subset of email accounts from Nigeria and waited to =
see if they received abuse reports, showed up on dating site blacklists etc=
. It turned out about 2/3rds of them did. This obviously doesn&#39;t imply =
that 2/3rds of all Nigerians are scammers, but unfortunately the few that a=
re are responsible for a disproportionate number of account creations.</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>If a merchant is selling something of value repeatedly,=
 then a small number of scammers can go back and try their luck over and ov=
er. I&#39;m not sure how many trades fall into such an exploitable category=
, though.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Also, there&#39;s the philosophical question of how hon=
est people really are when there&#39;s no consequences to their actions. Fo=
r instance, if most people were honest, then piracy would be not a big prob=
lem. But game studios that have cracked DRM quite often report piracy rates=
 of 95%, i.e. for every 5 sales they make, they get 100 people playing on t=
heir servers - the vast majority of their users are not honest.</div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div>

--089e0118226c3c232704f7b445f5--