1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
|
Return-Path: <pete@petertodd.org>
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90459C0032
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 2 Nov 2023 06:26:53 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28524EFBB
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 2 Nov 2023 06:26:52 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org D28524EFBB
Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key,
unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com
header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm3 header.b=doTGvfvC
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001,
RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id zpDx3bvzwQ-D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 2 Nov 2023 06:26:48 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com
[64.147.123.19])
by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3370D4EEEC
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 2 Nov 2023 06:26:48 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 3370D4EEEC
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46])
by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425B6320093C;
Thu, 2 Nov 2023 02:26:43 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163])
by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 02 Nov 2023 02:26:43 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date
:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to
:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject
:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender
:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1698906402; x=1698992802; bh=1QWg0ddtCclmP
HMjQl1oIH4FadzryVfOL1VAyZ2pwRM=; b=doTGvfvCR8la2SHIE0St8xb13bmUG
PaeuP9WZKljSGGPlCN8UBOSk2xhA6jPsUyScn7Ym4ji/12uwcPjaRg+fB/1j/uWa
gZYXZ/FZkgubAxt2dtfd81dSMm3wjsWSVMCu5yh9fQfyNfO5H6uMGr1vxSkj7GCT
G9vxLN6L83yDhfwD9x+NyZKOn9wE+qWrHgg6ZkwX5usEv8U8hfGQDsKGB9iCXLmu
ql8sRDmYlonbNLPIxQn9nYMy8n+hkdSLtC2nEJv8T3dH7EZKV9bW6fPA/dL9iy6C
IsgrByHTG+QyfOqWzj6NN8xIHeUC5yAghNTxBG3jF/ebcUTitQc/q5vtQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:IUFDZWFHLUq347PDuyvDtnpapkpaWbY0HV2Tl76pSi3qeeAmuxKppw>
<xme:IUFDZXWmynbvR74cG73C3k7Oa1azHRXhAO2A0x48pYbATZ4W6rS1Ny9V9cMCUAhQb
9C18mn9MvtGy_XRhUA>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:IUFDZQJWEocdp9BkabYrlWFqxJdpK8qZ8jU5DmIVVZd8U5SeUCvzEd90Dvsk7w>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedruddthedgleegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf
fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen
uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne
cujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgv
rhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtth
gvrhhnpeelvdellefftddukeduffejgfefjeeuheeileeftdfgteduteeggeevueethfej
tdenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii
gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdr
ohhrgh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:IUFDZQHXz0bFWK9JvoQC5jELfYN4S47WMbXEwXrB5CMhq7JuG6ba8w>
<xmx:IUFDZcU12TBKovzuJ3CP0I6vh3SHivhFPORxucpvE5lWHHRUVGRCQg>
<xmx:IUFDZTN_TdvgYkoDDJyfHmvjxaiZzlBdQ8KFt-U8V5E0K5XDC_EzRQ>
<xmx:IkFDZWdoSKbq6eQiPopASndyx5yBZPEjV39xwH-Q-TpbJlQFmvWBVw>
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu,
2 Nov 2023 02:26:41 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 12BE55F844; Thu, 2 Nov 2023 06:26:38 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 06:26:38 +0000
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ZUNBHsw2BldPLvPc@petertodd.org>
References: <CALZpt+GdyfDotdhrrVkjTALg5DbxJyiS8ruO2S7Ggmi9Ra5B9g@mail.gmail.com>
<ZTMWrJ6DjxtslJBn@petertodd.org>
<CALZpt+GQ9g-uwAGYogdaJcinVHRxs4=67hML78KbramJg=davA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oybkqytvrv2jeSnz"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CALZpt+GQ9g-uwAGYogdaJcinVHRxs4=67hML78KbramJg=davA@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
security@ariard.me, "lightning-dev\\\\@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_Expire and Coinbase-Like Behavior: Making
HTLCs Safer by Letting Transactions Expire Safely
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2023 06:26:53 -0000
--oybkqytvrv2jeSnz
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 05:24:36AM +0000, Antoine Riard wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>=20
> > So, why can't we make the HTLC-preimage path expire? Traditionally, we'=
ve
> tried
> > to ensure that transactions - once valid - remain valid forever. We do
> this
> > because we don't want transactions to become impossible to mine in the
> event of
> > a large reorganization.
>=20
> I don't know if reverse time-lock where a lightning spending path becomes
> invalid after a block height or epoch point solves the more advanced
> replacement cycling attacks, where a malicious commitment transaction
> itself replaces out a honest commitment transaction, and the
> child-pay-for-parent of this malicious transaction is itself replaced out
> by the attacker, leading to the automatic trimming of the malicious
> commitment transaction.
To be clear, are you talking about anchor channels or non-anchor channels?
Because in anchor channels, all outputs other than the anchor outputs provi=
ded
for fee bumping can't be spent until the commitment transaction is mined, w=
hich
means RBF/CPFP isn't relevant.
--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--oybkqytvrv2jeSnz
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=BIPC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--oybkqytvrv2jeSnz--
|