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From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 12:53:18 +0200
In-Reply-To: <03be4934-f0ff-4b58-880d-861d63a4f970@dashjr.org>
Cc: Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org>
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Op 26 apr 2025, om 11:50 heeft Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org> het volgende g=
eschreven:
> It should be needless to say, but this idea is utter insanity. Disappoint=
ing to see positive responses, and not one sensible reply calling it out ye=
t. The bugs should be fixed, not the abuse embraced. If attackers continue =
to bypass filters, we can go back to a full whitelist approach.=20
>=20
Are you proposing a whitelist of authorised public keys? Or a transaction s=
ize increase?

Your earlier proposal [0] to whitelist certain script forms is not relevant=
 here, because the Citrea white paper uses unspendable public keys to encod=
e the data that doesn't fit in OP_RETURN.

To stop that, you'd have to introduce a rule that only allows spendable pub=
lic keys to be put on chain. Afaik, the only way to do that is to require a=
 signature. That would dramatically increase the size of all output scripts=
.

And that won't fix "spam" either, because you can still grind the first N b=
its of every public key and/signature, maybe encode things in the nonce, et=
c.

The cost of that would be trivial for a bridge system. And "art" systems mi=
ghtly actually like the extra scarcity.

As for your earlier proposals (Ordisrespector, etc), they were not useful i=
n general, because they rely too heavily on having standardness rules go ag=
ainst financial incentives. Only consensus changes can work, but so far you=
 haven't proposed those. Since "spam" is a cat-and-mouse game, and consensu=
s changes take ages to design, implement and roll out, it's also not a viab=
le solution.

Increasing the OP_RETURN limit reduces harm compared to the two alternative=
s:
1. UTXO set bloating with fake public keys
2. Large scale bypassing of the (default) mempool, which leads to
   a) compact block relay failures (mempool fragmentation)
   b) centralisation

Custom-but-public relay networks like Libre Relay don't cause (2b), but (li=
kely) do cause (2a). So it's not good if Bitcoin Core default policy heavil=
y incentives such an alternative network. That's one reason why -mempoolful=
lrbf is now a default.

You're also not specifying what problem you're trying to solve. Nor what "d=
amage" is done. If blocks are too big in your opinion, then why not simply =
propose a block size decrease (again)? I would not expect meaningful suppor=
t for that either, but at least it's simple.

- Sjors=20

[0] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29187
=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-=
mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><br></div><div><div>Op 26=
 apr 2025, om 11:50 heeft Luke Dashjr &lt;luke@dashjr.org&gt; het volgende =
geschreven:</div><div><p></p></div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><di=
v><p>It should be needless to say, but this idea is utter insanity. Disappo=
inting to see positive responses, and not one sensible reply calling it out=
 yet. The bugs should be fixed, not the abuse embraced. If attackers contin=
ue to bypass filters, we can go back to a full whitelist approach.&nbsp;</p=
></div></div></blockquote><div>Are you proposing a whitelist of authorised =
public keys? Or a transaction size increase?</div><div><br></div><div><div>=
Your earlier proposal [0] to whitelist certain script forms is not relevant=
 here, because the Citrea white paper uses unspendable public keys to encod=
e the data that doesn't fit in OP_RETURN.</div></div><div><br></div><div>To=
 stop that, you'd have to introduce a rule that only allows spendable publi=
c keys to be put on chain. Afaik, the only way to do that is to require a s=
ignature. That would dramatically increase the size of all output scripts.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>And that won't fix "spam" either, because you can =
still grind the first N bits of every public key and/signature, maybe encod=
e things in the nonce, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>The cost of that would=
 be trivial for a bridge system. And "art" systems mightly actually like th=
e extra scarcity.</div><div><br></div><div>As for your earlier proposals (O=
rdisrespector, etc), they were not useful in general, because they rely too=
 heavily on having standardness rules go against financial incentives. Only=
 consensus changes can work, but so far you haven't proposed those. Since "=
spam" is a cat-and-mouse game, and consensus changes take ages to design, i=
mplement and roll out, it's also not a viable solution.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Increasing the OP_RETURN limit reduces harm compared to the two alter=
natives:</div><div>1. UTXO set bloating with fake public keys</div><div>2. =
Large scale bypassing of the (default) mempool, which leads to</div><div>&n=
bsp; &nbsp;a) compact block relay failures (mempool fragmentation)</div><di=
v>&nbsp; &nbsp;b) centralisation</div><div><br></div><div>Custom-but-public=
 relay networks like Libre Relay don't cause (2b), but (likely) do cause (2=
a). So it's not good if Bitcoin Core default policy heavily incentives such=
 an alternative network. That's one reason why -mempoolfullrbf is now a def=
ault.</div><div><br></div><div>You're also not specifying what problem you'=
re trying to solve. Nor what "damage" is done. If blocks are too big in you=
r opinion, then why not simply propose a block size decrease (again)? I wou=
ld not expect meaningful support for that either, but at least it's simple.=
</div><div><br></div><div>- Sjors&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>[0]&nbsp;h=
ttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29187</div><div>&nbsp;<div><br></d=
iv></div></body></html>

<p></p>

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